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Until the 4/5 get the eventual bill for battery replacement. Every battery has a limited # of cycles
How many people keep their cars for more than ten years? Even seven years?

You know what happens to the batteries when they're done in the cars? They go into household backup systems. Then eventually they get broken up and their lithium and such re-used.

I know people who had cars with gasoline engines and had to replace the transmissions after 6-7 years at a cost of over 3 grand, too.
 

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Until the 4/5 get the eventual bill for battery replacement. Every battery has a limited # of cycles
Doubtful many of those 4 will ever keep the car that long. That vehicle can have the batteries replaced (or even have the whole vehicle recapitalized by the used car market) like DoD does with vehicles and aircraft, and sold for a better value perhaps than a similar ICE vehicle.

I know people how have had the Prius and had to replace batteries after 6-7 years at a cost of over 3 grand. I have never replaced an engine in any vehicle I’ve owned. Oldest in the fleet now is a 23 year old Grand Cherokee 4.0 six with 180,000 on it.
Sure, but what's the true overall cost to operate a BEV vs ICE?
 

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How many people keep their cars for more than ten years? Even seven years?

You know what happens to the batteries when they're done in the cars? They go into household backup systems. Then eventually they get broken up and their lithium and such re-used.

I know people who had cars with gasoline engines and had to replace the transmissions after 6-7 years at a cost of over 3 grand, too.
According to this study most people who buy cars hold on to them for around 8 years. It didn't include leased cars.
"While the average new car buyer holds onto their car for 8.4 years, there is a wide variety of cars that owners are more likely to keep longer,”

There are a lot of people who get rid of cars at 100K miles.

Model# Years of Ownership (Avg.)
Land Cruiser11.4
Corvette10.5
SL10.3
TT10.2
Expedition10.1
Mustang10
4 Runner10
9119.9
Sequoia9.9
Avalon9.7
Durango 9.6
Ford Explorer9.6
Toyota Camry9.5
Honda Accord9.4
Toyota Highlander9.1
Honda Civic9.1
Jeep Grand Cherokee9.0
Toyota Corolla9.0
Toyota Tacoma9.0
Jeep Wrangler8.9
Ram Pickup 15008.7
Honda CR-V8.6
Chevrolet Silverado 15008.6
Nissan Altima8.6
Toyota RAV48.6
GMC Sierra 15008.5
Subaru Forester8.5
Ford F-1508.5
Average in study8.4


Including leased cars "the average time people keep their cars is about six years, which is not much longer than the average auto loan. The average age of vehicles on the road is about 11 years."

The average may be 6 years, but that is really made up of a lot of short term leasers and long term buyers. It seems from comments on here that a lot of leasers really don't take into consideration the existence of the long term buyer
 

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Yes, hybrids are a nice stopgap between ICE and full electric. However, if you buy a hybrid and are not able to charge it fully overnight, why did you pay that extra money?

If you run a hybrid almost all the time using the ICE engine, you are more inefficient than if you bought a pure ICE.
Hybrids aren't plugged in at all. Plug in hybrids only go 20-50 miles on the battery, you can charge them fully overnight with a standard 110 v extension cord. A full BEV can go 200-500 miles, that's when you need the high voltage charger in your garage to get a full charge overnight.

If you buy a plug in hybrid and never charge it, you get almost the same mileage as a regular hybrid, which is way better than a pure ICE vehicle.
 

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A plug in hybrid will get most people to work and back just on electric. If employer has charging stations you don’t even need one at home. The huge difference is you don’t need a second car to head up north to the cabin or vacation. Plug ins make the most sense ‘till there are charging stations as prevalent as gas stations and can charge the car in 10/15 minutes. But Washington never makes sense. Too easy.
 

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And when the zombie apocalypse comes, I’m sure my old 4.0 liter Jeep and 4.3 V6 Chevy in the boat will run when more advanced propulsion systems are shut down by mysterious forces lol!
 

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And when the zombie apocalypse comes, I’m sure my old 4.0 liter Jeep and 4.3 V6 Chevy in the boat will run when more advanced propulsion systems are shut down by mysterious forces lol!
You bet.
If there is any real gas still around.
The only “chip” in my old Monaco is in the converted radio.
Still running on points just fine.
 
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Are the newer electric vehicle batteries pretty much the same as all rechargeable batteries, in that you should periodically let them fully deplete, or as close to zero charge as possible, before recharging them to get the maximum capacity of the battery, because rechargeable batteries have a memory?

I can se someone so paranoid about their vehicle that they are always charging it to keep the battery near 100% charged, whether it needs a charge or not.
 

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You can always generate new power with solar panels. You can't generate new gasoline easily and the old stuff will all be gone in a year (gunkified). As rapidtrans noted.

Range paranoia is a problem that's impossible to overcome without hybrids or hydrogen.

According to this study most people who buy cars hold on to them for around 8 years. It didn't include leased cars.
"While the average new car buyer holds onto their car for 8.4 years, there is a wide variety of cars that owners are more likely to keep longer,”

Including leased cars "the average time people keep their cars is about six years, which is not much longer than the average auto loan. The average age of vehicles on the road is about 11 years."

The average may be 6 years, but that is really made up of a lot of short term leasers and long term buyers. It seems from comments on here that a lot of leasers really don't take into consideration the existence of the long term buyer
So in short, given improvements in batteries and the fact that BEVs seem to keep batteries longer than hybrids for whatever reason, ... it's probably not a massive problem. I suspect most cars with eight, nine, and ten speed automatics will get junked when the transmission goes, due to the crazy high cost of replacement. In my experience, unless you have a Ford, the engine does not go first.
 

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Until the 4/5 get the eventual bill for battery replacement. Every battery has a limited # of cycles
Batteries in many electric cars are now proving to last longer than the expected life of the car.
 

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Are the newer electric vehicle batteries pretty much the same as all rechargeable batteries, in that you should periodically let them fully deplete, or as close to zero charge as possible, before recharging them to get the maximum capacity of the battery, because rechargeable batteries have a memory?

I can se someone so paranoid about their vehicle that they are always charging it to keep the battery near 100% charged, whether it needs a charge or not.
You can always generate new power with solar panels. You can't generate new gasoline easily and the old stuff will all be gone in a year (gunkified). As rapidtrans noted.

Range paranoia is a problem that's impossible to overcome without hybrids or hydrogen.

So in short, given improvements in batteries and the fact that BEVs seem to keep batteries longer than hybrids for whatever reason, ... it's probably not a massive problem. I suspect most cars with eight, nine, and ten speed automatics will get junked when the transmission goes, due to the crazy high cost of replacement. In my experience, unless you have a Ford, the engine does not go first.
"In California, hybrid electric vehicles are warranted up to 150,000 miles or ten years. Outside of California, most states only require hybrid electric vehicles to guarantee the life of their battery for 100,000 miles or eight years. Most Prius owners with vehicles from the early 2000’s claim that their Prius battery lasted anywhere between 12 and 15 years."

As for how long to charge it that depends upon your commute. This article says to maximize battery life you should stay within 25% to 80%. It works best at 50%, and the battery lasts longer with slow charges. For that matter keep the car between 32 and 80 degrees and it will last longer as well.

 

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This article says to maximize battery life you should stay within 25% to 80%. It works best at 50%, and the battery lasts longer with slow charges.
I've read articles on batteries that said things to the contrary. Not completely to the contrary, and perhaps not completely applicable to a Li ion salt battery, but deep cycle batteries actually need to charge faster when they're being charged from low to moderate charge, and then the charge rate decreases as the battery charge state increases, as it puts on the topping charge. At least that is my recollection.
 

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People always forget,they plan to have road pricing.

~Each road will have a set price to drive on it.

~Each road will have congestion pricing,different times of the day/night different rates.

~Lastly,you will have a price per mile/black box on your car,you will be charged every mile driven along with the others I mentioned above!!

~Higher electricity rates for everyone..Even if you dont have a car you will be charged more!! Along with brownouts and blackouts as the grid everywhere is stressed to the max!!!

~It wont be cheap to drive electric cars in the future! Sucks for people in Apartments/Condo's as where do they charge,at charging stations waiting several hours in line to charge your car for a 20% charge! Yeah,thats works!

They told us this for several years already,people need to listen(they dont)...They wowed people with quick electric cars(albeit expensive) but people gloss over that,they think their $60,000 subcompact electric car will be a rocket(it wont be)..

I am not against electric cars,just the fact they are pushing it on us and we dont want it...
 

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People always forget,they plan to have road pricing.

~Each road will have a set price to drive on it.

~Each road will have congestion pricing,different times of the day/night different rates.

~Lastly,you will have a price per mile/black box on your car,you will be charged every mile driven along with the others I mentioned above!!

~Higher electricity rates for everyone..Even if you dont have a car you will be charged more!! Along with brownouts and blackouts as the grid everywhere is stressed to the max!!!

~It wont be cheap to drive electric cars in the future! Sucks for people in Apartments/Condo's as where do they charge,at charging stations waiting several hours in line to charge your car for a 20% charge! Yeah,thats works!

They told us this for several years already,people need to listen(they dont)...They wowed people with quick electric cars(albeit expensive) but people gloss over that,they think their $60,000 subcompact electric car will be a rocket(it wont be)..

I am not against electric cars,just the fact they are pushing it on us and we dont want it...
It sucks to be in Canada. The US people won't be forced like this.
 

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I've read articles on batteries that said things to the contrary. Not completely to the contrary, and perhaps not completely applicable to a Li ion salt battery, but deep cycle batteries actually need to charge faster when they're being charged from low to moderate charge, and then the charge rate decreases as the battery charge state increases, as it puts on the topping charge. At least that is my recollection.
"People should not expect charging times to come down much below 20 mins, or ever be equivalent to filling a tank with fuel. Fifty liters of fuel represents 600kWh of energy. A 600kWh battery would weigh 6 tons today. A 50kWh battery weighs half a ton — do you really want to be carrying around more than half a ton on all the short journeys you take every day, just to save a few charging stops on the occasional long run?"


It is clear that a PHEV is the desired end point for many vehicles. BEV in the US will be for second commuter cars and fleets, and those making decisions on things other than economics.
 

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I have not bought a new car in decades; I buy used. Most vehicles I buy are typically over 6 years old but in good condition (I hope) and under 80,000 miles. I expect to get another 4 years at least without a major repair. If battery pack is expected to need replacement in the first 2 years I own vehicle and I need to plan for $3,000 in the first 2 years of owning it, I will probably not buy it.

Are the hybrid warrenties in California transferrable?

I see a sigificant impact on the used car market and a corresponding impact on the trade-in market. Law of unintended consequences.
 

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I have not bought a new car in decades; I buy used. Most vehicles I buy are typically over 6 years old but in good condition (I hope) and under 80,000 miles. I expect to get another 4 years at least without a major repair. If battery pack is expected to need replacement in the first 2 years I own vehicle and I need to plan for $3,000 in the first 2 years of owning it, I will probably not buy it.

Are the hybrid warrenties in California transferrable?

I see a sigificant impact on the used car market and a corresponding impact on the trade-in market. Law of unintended consequences.
"Most Prius owners with vehicles from the early 2000’s claim that their Prius battery lasted anywhere between 12 and 15 years."

I have a 2011, original owner, 10 years, 90K miles, no problem with the battery. It simply isn't a worry. $24K new $8K KBB private party after 10 years.

The longer hybrid warranty is related to the California emission controls. It should transfer just like the regular warranty for a 2 year old car.
 

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Battery charging, whether it’s in your phone or electric car, is software controlled. The idea is to get a trade off between fast charge times, reducing heat, extending battery service life, etc. The phenomenon of battery memory (reduced capacity from not fully discharging) doesn’t apply to these modern batteries.

As far as environmental impact from battery manufacturing, better recycling can offset a lot of that.

And “pay by mile” is going to become the future. Just a matter of time. In reality, you’re already doing it with gas taxes.
 

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I've read articles on batteries that said things to the contrary. Not completely to the contrary, and perhaps not completely applicable to a Li ion salt battery, but deep cycle batteries actually need to charge faster when they're being charged from low to moderate charge, and then the charge rate decreases as the battery charge state increases, as it puts on the topping charge. At least that is my recollection.
It's generally true with any rechargeable battery that as it approaches full charge, you want to slow the rate down to a trickle. But it's also generally true that a faster rate earlier on will degrade a battery faster than a slower rate. Most charging algorithms try to find a balance between practicality and longevity.
 
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"People should not expect charging times to come down much below 20 mins, or ever be equivalent to filling a tank with fuel. Fifty liters of fuel represents 600kWh of energy. A 600kWh battery would weigh 6 tons today. A 50kWh battery weighs half a ton — do you really want to be carrying around more than half a ton on all the short journeys you take every day, just to save a few charging stops on the occasional long run?"


It is clear that a PHEV is the desired end point for many vehicles. BEV in the US will be for second commuter cars and fleets, and those making decisions on things other than economics.
The flaw in your analysis is that 600kwh of energy is not needed to propel a car with an electric motor. Combustion results in a large percentage of energy loss that is not present when transferring stored energy from a battery to an electric motor. Electric motor drive is far more efficient than the 30-35% efficiency of an ICE. So a battery size or weight that you suggest is not realistic or necessary.
 
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