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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
81' Charger 2.2 automatic. Idles ruff, idles at lower rpm, stalls. Surges when driving especially when you back slightly of of throttle. Stalls when off throttle. Have to pump throttle 30 to 40 times if car sits for a week to get it started. Was running fine but now cannot drive it at all. Only has 50K original miles. In family since new. Garage kept. Only run on Sunoco Ultra and additive to reduce damaging effects of ethanol. Had carb professionally rebuilt last year as car was doing same thing. Really frustrated. If we can't get it running properly family, due to emotional attachment, want the car crushed. Just do not know what to do. Any reliable Chrysler 2.2 techs in the Philadelphia area? Thanks Ray
 

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1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
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Welcome to Allpar. Regardless of fuel quality & additives, the fuel system is going on 42 years old.
At only 50K miles, this car has sat for long periods of time.
Inspection of inside the tank may help in diagnosis, especially of what may have settled on the bottom of the tank.
The valves inside the fuel pump may be failing. Check fuel pressure?
It sounds lean. A competent carburetor rebuild isn't helped if the problem is before the carb.
To begin, the fuel system needs a good inspection from front to back.
Always diagnose first.
 

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Isn't there a fuel filter under the car near the drivers door? I'd try replacing it and putting a bottle of Techron Fuel System Cleaner in the tank. Neither one costs that much and just MIGHT help the situation. But you really need to follow Walts advice, as he used to work on cars and I've never claimed to be a mechanic, much less work as one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Welcome to Allpar. Regardless of fuel quality & additives, the fuel system is going on 42 years old.
At only 50K miles, this car has sat for long periods of time.
Inspection of inside the tank may help in diagnosis, especially of what may have settled on the bottom of the tank.
The valves inside the fuel pump may be failing. Check fuel pressure?
It sounds lean. A competent carburetor rebuild isn't helped if the problem is before the carb.
To begin, the fuel system needs a good inspection from front to back.
Always diagnose first.
Car sit for a couple of weeks at a time but is always kept running and driven around town. Has had the pumping of the gas pedal issue for years when starting after it sits for weeks. Other than that it would start and run fine. Also had the typical 2.2 hesitation when accelerating from a start or going around a street corner. Has done that for 35 to 40 years. Hasn't sat for years at a time. Know of any competent technicians in the Philly area familiar with these? Thank you for help, info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Isn't there a fuel filter under the car near the drivers door? I'd try replacing it and putting a bottle of Techron Fuel System Cleaner in the tank. Neither one costs that much and just MIGHT help the situation. But you really need to follow Walts advice, as he used to work on cars and I've never claimed to be a mechanic, much less work as one.
Thanks for the reply, info. Will check on it.
 

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1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
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Pumping the gas to start a cold engine is a symptom of a choke issue. With the air cleaner off, the choke plate(s) should snap shut when blipping the throttle lever. You should be able to push the butterfly open with your finger. There will be a light spring tension to try and hold it closed. Any tactile 'creakiness' or binding is a problem.
Do not use oil on the choke. I use a foaming colloidal graphite penetrant like the old Mopar Heat Riser Solvent.

Check under the distributor cap. The plug wires have to be completely pushed in and secure.
The carbon button in the cap center should have a shiny spot where it contacts the rotor.
Pull out the rotor & check its condition. The reluctor vanes are underneath the plastic pickup plate. Make sure the vanes aren't hitting the pickup as they pass. Check the distributor shaft & vane yoke for no play with the distributor shaft.
Some dust inside inside is normal. If it is metallic dust it can cause arcing & is a sign of wear.
Basic timing has to be set with the computer vacuum hose disconnected & plugged. 10 to 12 degrees BTDC is good.
 
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This is a carbureted car so the filter is probably in the engine bay.
Having to pump the gas pedal to start the car makes me think one of two things is happening:
1) The choke system isn't working properly. That should be easy to check on a cold engine. Pump the gas pedal once on a cold engine. Don't try to start the car. Remove the air cleaner to see if the choke has closed.
2) The fuel is not remaining in the line or carburetor when the car sets for a while.

if it is choke related, I had a bad time on my 2.2 Rampage with the choke. First there were plastic bushings where the choke shaft goes through the carb body. The wore and the choke would bind. I replaced those and it was better. But I could only get the choke to work properly all the time by unplugging the anti-diesel solenoid on the carb.
 

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. . . .Isn't there a fuel filter under the car near the drivers door? I'd try replacing it and putting a bottle of Techron Fuel System Cleaner in the tank. Neither one costs that much and just MIGHT help the situation. . . . .
Fuel pump is located on the lower part of the engine block and facing the radiator. Fuel filter is between the pump output and carburetor. See attached image. I have never been a fan of "magic elixirs" which supposedly clean the fuel system. Best preventative maintenance is a carburetor that has been disassembled, cleaned and adjusted correctly.

Motor vehicle Font Parallel Art Auto part


. . . .Pumping the gas to start a cold engine is a symptom of a choke issue. With the air cleaner off, the choke plate(s) should snap shut when blipping the throttle lever. You should be able to push the butterfly open with your finger. There will be a light spring tension to try and hold it closed. Any tactile 'creakiness' or binding is a problem. . . .
Maybe YES; maybe NO. Any older carbureted engine that sits unused beyond 5 - 7 days will have a long starter cranking time before engine firing. Today with the highly volatile components in gasoline for cleaner burning, these tend to evaporate quickly and lower the fuel level or cause the float bowl to go completely empty. It can take 20 - 30 seconds of the starter spinning the crankshaft and the fuel pump being activated to get fuel from the tank, through the filter and into the carburetor before engine firing occurs.

Best way to counter this evaporation of fuel in the float bowl is to devise a system to pressurize the fuel tank inlet to about 10 psi. This will force fuel through the pickup filter sock, fuel lines, through the mechanical fuel pump, fuel filter and into the float chamber. Do this for about 60 seconds and the float bowl will be full. Pump the accelerator 2 - 4 times to advance / squirt fuel into the carburetor throat. Engage the starer and you should have an engine firing within 1 - 2 seconds if all other aspects of the carburetor are adjusted properly.

If you cannot pressurize the fuel tank inlet, open the choke butterfly and give a 5 second squirt of starting fluid into the carburetor throat. This should get the engine running long enough to pump fuel into the carburetor bowl.

. . . .81' Charger 2.2 automatic. . . . . Garage kept. Only run on Sunoco Ultra and additive to reduce damaging effects of ethanol. Had carb professionally rebuilt last year as car was doing same thing. . . .
Since this vehicle is not driven much, how old is the gasoline in the fuel tank? Do you tend to fill the tank and then after many months refill when the level approaches empty? If YES then I would suggest only adding small amounts of fuel at any 1 time (about 2 - 4 gallons). Doing this keeps you replenishing with fresh fuel more frequently and helps avoid a situation where old gasoline evaporates and nasty residue gets left in the system.

Now many will say that a non-full fuel tank invites moisture accumulation. But if you use fuel with ethanol that tends to scavenge moisture and force it to be burned along with the gasoline. Now I can hear critics saying how bad ethanol is for older, carbureted engines. But the key is to not let the fuel get too old. Ethanol is good at keeping fuel systems clean but left too long and problems arise.

. . . 81' Charger 2.2 automatic. Idles ruff, idles at lower rpm, stalls. Surges when driving especially when you back slightly of of throttle. Stalls when off throttle. . . . Had carb professionally rebuilt last year as car was doing same thing. Really frustrated.. . . .
Just because the carburetor was "professionally rebuilt" does not mean it has been adjusted correctly. To me it seems there are a lot of adjustments that need to be checked on the carburetor. Is the choke set properly? Is the choke vacuum pull off set properly? Is the solenoid throttle kicker set properly? Throttle kicker must be set properly to stop the carburetor butterfly valves from closing completely when accelerator pedal released. When you turn the ignition key to the OFF position, the throttle kicker is deactivated and allows the butterfly valves to close completely. This stops the engine and prevents "dieseling" and "run on" when a hot engine is shut down.

There are a myriad of vacuum hoses attached to vacuum ports and devices in, around and on the carburetor. There are thermally activated vacuum valves on the engine. The EGR / exhaust gas recirculation system is controlled by a thermal vacuum switch inserted into the cooling system. EGR should not be activated on a cold engine or at engine idle. The EGR valve needs to be checked to make sure it closes properly and is not stull fully or partially open. That can cause stalling at engine idle.

There should be an emissions label on the underneath side of the hood. It should show routing of vacuum hoses and thermal vacuum switches in the cooling system. Check the condition of all the vacuum hoses. Dried, cracked hoses that leak vacuum can cause drivability issues. Are hoses routed and connected properly to the appropriate devices?

Attached are files taken from a 1984 front wheel drive service manual for the Chrysler 2.2 liter 4 cylinder carbureted engine. Information listed is for a vehicle with the Holley 5220 / 6520 carburetor. I have named the files so they sort in ascending order for checking and adjusting the carburetor. 1981 vehicle carburetion may be slightly different but this should be a good starting point.

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This is a carbureted car so the filter is probably in the engine bay.
Having to pump the gas pedal to start the car makes me think one of two things is happening:
1) The choke system isn't working properly. That should be easy to check on a cold engine. Pump the gas pedal once on a cold engine. Don't try to start the car. Remove the air cleaner to see if the choke has closed.
2) The fuel is not remaining in the line or carburetor when the car sets for a while.

if it is choke related, I had a bad time on my 2.2 Rampage with the choke. First there were plastic bushings where the choke shaft goes through the carb body. The wore and the choke would bind. I replaced those and it was better. But I could only get the choke to work properly all the time by unplugging the anti-diesel solenoid on the carb.
Thank you. Choke is working properly. Believe fuel is either draining back or evaporating. When it starts, runs on high idle and idles down after warming up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Pumping the gas to start a cold engine is a symptom of a choke issue. With the air cleaner off, the choke plate(s) should snap shut when blipping the throttle lever. You should be able to push the butterfly open with your finger. There will be a light spring tension to try and hold it closed. Any tactile 'creakiness' or binding is a problem.
Do not use oil on the choke. I use a foaming colloidal graphite penetrant like the old Mopar Heat Riser Solvent.

Check under the distributor cap. The plug wires have to be completely pushed in and secure.
The carbon button in the cap center should have a shiny spot where it contacts the rotor.
Pull out the rotor & check its condition. The reluctor vanes are underneath the plastic pickup plate. Make sure the vanes aren't hitting the pickup as they pass. Check the distributor shaft & vane yoke for no play with the distributor shaft.
Some dust inside inside is normal. If it is metallic dust it can cause arcing & is a sign of wear.
Basic timing has to be set with the computer vacuum hose disconnected & plugged. 10 to 12 degrees BTDC is good.
Choke seems to work properly. Cap, rotor look OK, not much contact wear or dust. Ignition wires look fine and plugs burning clean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Fuel pump is located on the lower part of the engine block and facing the radiator. Fuel filter is between the pump output and carburetor. See attached image. I have never been a fan of "magic elixirs" which supposedly clean the fuel system. Best preventative maintenance is a carburetor that has been disassembled, cleaned and adjusted correctly.

View attachment 89603



Maybe YES; maybe NO. Any older carbureted engine that sits unused beyond 5 - 7 days will have a long starter cranking time before engine firing. Today with the highly volatile components in gasoline for cleaner burning, these tend to evaporate quickly and lower the fuel level or cause the float bowl to go completely empty. It can take 20 - 30 seconds of the starter spinning the crankshaft and the fuel pump being activated to get fuel from the tank, through the filter and into the carburetor before engine firing occurs.

Best way to counter this evaporation of fuel in the float bowl is to devise a system to pressurize the fuel tank inlet to about 10 psi. This will force fuel through the pickup filter sock, fuel lines, through the mechanical fuel pump, fuel filter and into the float chamber. Do this for about 60 seconds and the float bowl will be full. Pump the accelerator 2 - 4 times to advance / squirt fuel into the carburetor throat. Engage the starer and you should have an engine firing within 1 - 2 seconds if all other aspects of the carburetor are adjusted properly.

If you cannot pressurize the fuel tank inlet, open the choke butterfly and give a 5 second squirt of starting fluid into the carburetor throat. This should get the engine running long enough to pump fuel into the carburetor bowl.



Since this vehicle is not driven much, how old is the gasoline in the fuel tank? Do you tend to fill the tank and then after many months refill when the level approaches empty? If YES then I would suggest only adding small amounts of fuel at any 1 time (about 2 - 4 gallons). Doing this keeps you replenishing with fresh fuel more frequently and helps avoid a situation where old gasoline evaporates and nasty residue gets left in the system.

Now many will say that a non-full fuel tank invites moisture accumulation. But if you use fuel with ethanol that tends to scavenge moisture and force it to be burned along with the gasoline. Now I can hear critics saying how bad ethanol is for older, carbureted engines. But the key is to not let the fuel get too old. Ethanol is good at keeping fuel systems clean but left too long and problems arise.



Just because the carburetor was "professionally rebuilt" does not mean it has been adjusted correctly. To me it seems there are a lot of adjustments that need to be checked on the carburetor. Is the choke set properly? Is the choke vacuum pull off set properly? Is the solenoid throttle kicker set properly? Throttle kicker must be set properly to stop the carburetor butterfly valves from closing completely when accelerator pedal released. When you turn the ignition key to the OFF position, the throttle kicker is deactivated and allows the butterfly valves to close completely. This stops the engine and prevents "dieseling" and "run on" when a hot engine is shut down.

There are a myriad of vacuum hoses attached to vacuum ports and devices in, around and on the carburetor. There are thermally activated vacuum valves on the engine. The EGR / exhaust gas recirculation system is controlled by a thermal vacuum switch inserted into the cooling system. EGR should not be activated on a cold engine or at engine idle. The EGR valve needs to be checked to make sure it closes properly and is not stull fully or partially open. That can cause stalling at engine idle.

There should be an emissions label on the underneath side of the hood. It should show routing of vacuum hoses and thermal vacuum switches in the cooling system. Check the condition of all the vacuum hoses. Dried, cracked hoses that leak vacuum can cause drivability issues. Are hoses routed and connected properly to the appropriate devices?

Attached are files taken from a 1984 front wheel drive service manual for the Chrysler 2.2 liter 4 cylinder carbureted engine. Information listed is for a vehicle with the Holley 5220 / 6520 carburetor. I have named the files so they sort in ascending order for checking and adjusting the carburetor. 1981 vehicle carburetion may be slightly different but this should be a good starting point.

View attachment 89605 View attachment 89610 View attachment 89606 View attachment 89607 View attachment 89608
Vacuum line look OK and are pliable but who knows if they are completely sealed. These 2.2's never ran smoothly. Had four of them and everyone had hesitation issues, actually having better response backing off throtltle slightly. Will try Techron. Gas in car is about four months old.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Going back in this week to see if they can get it running properly. After this time we are done. Haven't been able to use the car and doesn't make sense to keep it in the garage, on insurance, service things that go bad from age. This year replaced tires that had 1000 miles on them at the most due to age. Just frustrated. Appreciate the input from the forum. Thank you.
 
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