[Laser86]

The factory service manual will have complete wiring diagrams.
Despite the overall design not changing much, there were advances till going on. For example, there was a switch away from mechanical to electrical flashers and this may explain the differences.

I noticed that, despite the overall design not changing much, there were still slight advances going on from year to year ...... even from '02 to '03 .... '03 had rear brake disc option, heavier front springs, 16" rims ... '03 was like the culmination of everything good into one, then they discontinued it ....

 

[ImperialCrown]

Is it a bad (high-resistance or open) ground feeding battery (park lamp) voltage through the other filament into the (directional lamp) with the key off? This 'feedback' may go back to the solid-state flasher and after a moment, feed through start operating the turn signal with the key off?

The poor ground may be at or in the lamp socket. Any signs of moisture corrosion in front or rear lamps?

It may not show on an ohmmeter test, but it may show in a voltage drop test (a single strand of wire will measure 0Ω, but will have an excessive voltage drop trying to pass current).
Are they the correct 3157 lamps front & rear?

 

[Laser86]

I will double check the bulb numbers, I was wondering how those bulbs and sockets were configured, thank you for the illustration, not like the old school ones where you can easily tell.

The sockets do not look corroded, not perfectly clean, but not corroded .... looks like they are still available at Rock Auto, thinking of getting 4, pretty sure they are interchangeable left to right and front to back, that should help prevent a future loose connection to hopefully avoid getting pulled over one day who knows where for a non-functioning brake or turn signal light.

I am still trying to figure out what I described in POST # 17

Installed wiper delay relay from the '03, same thing.

Ignition off, wipers off, engaged turn signal, turned on ignition, turn signal came on, turned off ignition, turn signal stayed on, turned wipers to low, turn signal turned off.

???????????????????????????????

Plan on yanking the multi-switch later this evening to take a closer look at it.

So if this is an electronic relay will that prevent me from switching to 3157 LED bulbs ? I see there are some plug and play 3157 LED bulbs on FleaBay.

 

[AllanC]

. . . .Just went out and looked again, the wiring is intact, no cuts or slices.
. . . .
According to post #2

Left - left tail

PIN 1 BK - ground
PIN 2
PIN 3 DG / OR - stop / turn

Right - right tail

PIN 1 BK - ground
PIN 2
PIN 3 BN / RD - stop / turn
. . . .
The left and right rear running and turn bulbs / filaments are both working properly now, they were not before because PINS 1 and 3 were switched on both the left and right sides. . . . .

Having the ground wire on the stop / turn sgnal feed side and the stop /turn signal feed side serving as ground would cause the strange lamp behavior. But this would mean that the OEM supplier to the factory assembly line made a mistake with the wiring harness. And this means the rear signals did not work properly when the vehicle left the factory. And the original owner of the van never brought up a waranty issue? But if this was a fleet vehicle with many different drivers, then no one would notice and / or care if the turn signals and tail lamps worked properly in the rear. Glad you solved the issue.

. . . Seems like a pretty simple circuit, but both my '02 and '03 had / have a double relay which I am assuming is for the turn / flasher, opposed to the single relay on the '98, why would they change that on a basic cargo van ? . . . .

I wonder if the double relay in the later model vehicle incorporates a front DRL (daytime running lamp) feature? That would explain the extra pins.

 

[ImperialCrown]

When you check the bulb types, remove the bulb & flip it 180º before plugging it back in. Look in the socket for signs of tarnish or heat distress.
The difference in brightness between left & right (post #6) could indicate a poor ground with feedback through the parking lamp filament.
Do the lamps look OK, equal (brightness-wise) from outside the vehicle with both the parking lamps & turn signal on?
Has the dash turn signal indicator ever glowed dimly with the parking lamps on?

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Sounds like maybe the multifunction switch has an issue.

 

[AllanC]

. . . I am still trying to figure out what I described in POST # 17

Installed wiper delay relay from the '03, same thing.

Ignition off, wipers off, engaged turn signal, turned on ignition, turn signal came on, turned off ignition, turn signal stayed on, turned wipers to low, turn signal turned off.

??????????????????????????????? . . . .

The real challenge in solving this issue is that no one has an accurate, correct model year factory wiring diagram for a 1998 B1500 van. We can look at diagrams for pickup trucks around the 1998 time frame but that could be misleading. There are wiring changes from year to year and changes due to replacing electro-mechanical components with solid state devices and differences due to varying vehicle configurations.

I looked at a wiring diagram for a 1998 Dodge Durango. That diagram shows a combination, electronic flasher mechanism in the turn signal system. I then looked at the wiper motor diagram and it shows a 6 pathway connector at the wiper motor (only 5 wire paths used). The ground is through a BK wire to G101.

In post #2 dated Apr 22, 2022 ImperialCrown provided a wiring diagram that shows the front turn signals grounded at G101. If G101 has a poor ground connection could the wiper motor be providing an electrical back feed through G101 to the electronic flasher and causing the weird behavior of the turn signals???? I would suggest checking the ground at the wiper motor electrical connector and onto ground G101. Hopefully this is not an adventure down a "rabbit hole".

 

[ImperialCrown]

The B-van wiring diagrams are different enough than the D-trucks & Dakotas as to be misleading. Nomenclature & wire colors can be different.
The online service information provided to Chrysler dealerships on vehicles that are over 20 years old leaves something to be desired. The original paper manual is better.
True that the B-van didn't change much year over year until the Sprinter took over for 2004.
I can get most of the wiring info you need.

 

[ImperialCrown]

Poor ground location images. Barely readable. I've highlighted the ground points, but it seems incomplete.
The wiper motor 'park' switch (where it lifts ground during intermittent (delay) wipe and motor shutoff is inside the CTM. The CTM is like a BCM, but simpler.

 

[AllanC]

. . . .In post #2 dated Apr 22, 2022 ImperialCrown provided a wiring diagram that shows the front turn signals grounded at G101. If G101 has a poor ground connection could the wiper motor be providing an electrical back feed through G101 to the electronic flasher and causing the weird behavior of the turn signals???? I would suggest checking the ground at the wiper motor electrical connector and onto ground G101. Hopefully this is not an adventure down a "rabbit hole". . . . .

Grabbing at straws with this idea. See attached image. Remove BK ground wire at wiper motor connector. Replace #6 #4 at wiper motor with direct ground from battery. Run test again with turn signal. What happens?

 

[Laser86]

Thank you for all of the responses, I will read each one of them thoroughly to make sure I understand each one, quite a bit to digest.


Another off the wall question, is it possible that the aftermarket replacement relays are not compatible with the OEM wiring ? Or is this just a standard type relay ?

More Information for STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS EFL4

I thought the ignition switch / harness was replaced due to previous owner having a starting issue, ended up being the neutral safety switch, I don't think it was replaced, but he did send a new one with the van, I installed it this evening, same issue.

 

[Laser86]

Grabbing at straws with this idea. See attached image. Remove BK ground wire at wiper motor connector. Replace #6 at wiper motor with direct ground from battery. Run test again with turn signal. What happens?

View attachment 87392

Cavity # 4 ?

 

[AllanC]

. . . .Cavity # 4 ? . . . .

OOPS ! My mistake. I meant cavity #4 for ground at the wiper motor electrical connector. Schematic corrected.

 

[AllanC]

. . . .Another off the wall question, is it possible that the aftermarket replacement relays are not compatible with the OEM wiring ? Or is this just a standard type relay ? . . . .

Standard electro-mechanical relays would be widely interchangeable with any wiring system. As long as the spade terminals align with receptacles in the adjoining socket and the relay contacts are built for the design amperage load, then there will be no compatibility issues.

 

[ImperialCrown]

The Mopar flasher is 56007348, the Standard part covers that and should be OK.

 

[Laser86]

Ok, apparently the 1998 Dodge van wiper motor has a different style connector

There is a copper ground strap (located at top of previous picture, the wiper motor will not function without this strap connected), one end of strap is riveted to the wiper motor housing, the other end is grounded by one of the 3 wiper motor mounting bolts, I removed and cleaned that, along with the metal bushing spacer.

Not being sure if where the copper strap was riveted to the wiper motor housing was making a good connection I ran a ground wire from the wiper motor housing straight to the battery.

I also cleaned these ground connectors.

Same issue.


Copper grounding strap disconnected (wiper motor will not function) - turn signal on, ignition on, ignition off ... turn signal will keep flashing regardless position of wiper function control, delay / low / high.

Copper grounding strap connected - same as before, if the turn signal is on, if the wiper is on, and the wipers ARE NOT resting, when you turn off the ignition the turn signal WILL turn off, regardless whether wiper function control is in delay / low / high, this only seems to be an issue when the wiper motor is in the resting position whether or not the wipers are on.


This does not need to be fixed anytime soon, it has been this way since I owned the van, almost a year, the turn signal only stays on if I do not straighten the wheel before I cut off the ignition, which is not often, however, I was wanting to button up the bottom of the dash and the plastic casing around the steering column, also, I do not like getting beat by anything, especially something that should logically be able to be figured out, electricity is logical, however, I also have to weigh what is practical, I would be content wiring in an additional relay somewhere to cut off the turn signal or whatever else is causing this issue, especially if repairing this is going to entail a large undertaking (wiring in a relay is what I thought I may have to do originally), seeing how this is 1998 van I am not looking for perfection, installing a relay would be fine. There are many other things that I need to repair on this van. I could also break off this for now and return to it later.

I am clueless here, I will continue to look over the wiring diagram(s).

* note : both the wiper motor and turn signal are on the accessory (when the key is turned backwards), if this means anything.

Is it possible the resistance of the flasher relay is lower than OEM therefore allowing the electricity to somehow find ground through the least path of resistance, IE the relay ? I know all relays should basically be the same, but another brand flasher relay did change the delay I first described from 15 to 25 seconds (POST # 15).

Thanks for all of the help to this point, I appreciate it, I know this has been time consuming.

 

[Laser86]

I still have the multi-switch that came with the van, it was in pieces, the brake / turn / hazard contact strips were corroded, I was able to find the two screws that held it together and piece it together so I at least had brake lights so I could drive the van until I got a replacement multi-switch. I removed the replacement multi-switch yesterday and matched the wires against this old multi-switch, the wiring on both multi-switches are in the same location on the multi-switch and on both of the multi-switch connectors.

The turn / brake / hazard and wiper mode function switch appear to be two completely separated circuits within the multi-switch.

Maybe there is a wire(s) landed incorrectly on the other side of the multi-switch connectors in the main wiring harness or elsewhere.

I am clueless.

 

[AllanC]

. . . .Ok, apparently the 1998 Dodge van wiper motor has a different style connector

View attachment 87427
. . . .

This invalidates my hunch that a shared, common ground point for the wiper motor was somehow providing feedback to turn signal system. The wiper motor has its own, unique ground.

. . . This does not need to be fixed anytime soon, it has been this way since I owned the van, almost a year, the turn signal only stays on if I do not straighten the wheel before I cut off the ignition, which is not often, however, I was wanting to button up the bottom of the dash and the plastic casing around the steering column, also, I do not like getting beat by anything, especially something that should logically be able to be figured out, electricity is logical, however, I also have to weigh what is practical, I would be content wiring in an additional relay somewhere to cut off the turn signal or whatever else is causing this issue, especially if repairing this is going to entail a large undertaking (wiring in a relay is what I thought I may have to do originally), seeing how this is 1998 van I am not looking for perfection, installing a relay would be fine. There are many other things that I need to repair on this van. I could also break off this for now and return to it later.

I am clueless here, I will continue to look over the wiring diagram(s). . . . .

I would not spend time looking at diagrams that have been posted in this continuing discussion of solving this turn signal issue. You need ACCURATE documentation that shows OEM factory wiring diagrams for a B1500 van, model year 1998. There are too many differences and types of devices used in the 1996 to 1998 time frame on trucks and vans such as electro-mechanical relays or solid state devices to try and make an educated guess as to the source of this problem.

I did a search on Ebay for a "1998 dodge b1500 van service manual" and found some OEM service manuals. Some very inexpensive and some priced over $100. If you want any chance to solve this problem then you will need some model year correct documentation to include wiring diagrams. Decision is yours.

 

[Laser86]

Yeah, I am at a loss, but then I am far from an expert.

Is the wiper circuitry, to include the delay circuit, typically powered by the ignition only, or does it also see batt + ?


Probably just take a break, work on other things and come back to this, may look at purchasing a service manual, not a priority at the moment however, may come in useful down the road.


Thank you for all of your assistance.

The good news is that the wipers seem to be moving faster after cleaning the copper grounding strap : )

 

[AllanC]

. . . .Is the wiper circuitry, to include the delay circuit, typically powered by the ignition only, or does it also see batt + ? . . . .

All power for the wiper motor and associated circuitry flows through the RUN or ACCY position of the ignition switch. That is the reason the wipers do not park at the base of the windshield if you turn the wiper switch to the OFF position and then turn ignition switch to the OFF position before the wipers reach park at windshield base.

So to answer your question, the wiper motor only sees switched battery power, not continuous power. Depending upon the wiring layout, some component of the wiper circuitry could have continuous battery power. But a tracing of an accurate model year wiring diagram would be necessary to confirm or deny this theory.