Allpar Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all. Got a couple questions before I start this project of replacing the power steering pump. I bought this car and the guy I bought it from said pwr steering pump had extra hose in system that Chrysler didnt need. He decided it didnt need that much hose so he cut it off and reconnected the fluid hose back with about 5 feet now missing! I was really confused about how this guy knew more than the engineers at Chrysler so I asked him if I could take the part of the hose he removed with me. The pwr steering pump leaks everywhere. Its missing this long piece of hose dude took off that has metal about a foot long on the ends. I was under the car and found a white plastic pulley jammed in the area right above the lower cntrl arm. Just sitting all by itself not connected to nothing. Im sure its the pwr steering pulley laying up in there. I guess Im asking what would you guys, or gals, do in this situation? Like where would you start? It actually steers somewhat ok. Its obvious pwr steering isnt working but its not too bad. Had worse. I can go to u pull it and grab anything I need. Maybe the whole pump with the pulley in tact and buy a belt? Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated. This is a 99 sebring conv w 2.5 ltr 6 cyl. THANKS!!!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,365 Posts
It sounds like he tore out the P/S fluid cooler and lines that run down the left frame rail to the front of the car.
I know of no white plastic pulley. The pulleys would be black. Is there a part # molded into it?
The P/S pump is mounted behind the engine near the firewall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
And again, Imperialcrown is right. All the pulleys are black. Is it possible they left that white one lodged under there for later? Like they may have been planning on using it later? This guy was not as good of a mechanic as he thought he was. Im not sure he knew too much. But I dont know him, maybe hes better than I think. Anyway, Is that p/s fluid cooler pretty important or when I install the other power steering pump i get from you pull it going to be fine without the p/s fluid cooler and extra hose he tore out? And is there anything like a trick or two i need to know before installing the other one? Any important notes I should take with me before I go get the one out of the 99 Sebring conv at u pull it and put it in this 99 conv? Thanks a lot!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,365 Posts
The P/S cooler was added to provide long component life, particularly for rubber seals, etc. If this is going to be a long term vehicle, I would add a small cheap generic fluid cooler availible at any auto parts store. Use the amber fluid, not ATF.
Hose it in from the low pressure return side of the gear back to the reservior. You can hang it and tie it safely over the crossmember out of the way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Wow. I def learned something today. And I will install one just to do it once in my life. Im certainly going to sell it one day but I think the next person would hate it if their pwr steering pump went out and then noone may realize the pumps cooler isnt on therfe. prob just be a big ol mess later if i dont do it now. Thanks a lot!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
As a Sebring Convertible owner, you most likely don't need to replace the pump, only the lines. They can be bought pre-made, or you can take the pieces to a hose and tubing supply store and have them make one to suit (most likely cheaper, but more time consuming).

No idea why anyone would do that.

Also, there is no pulley anywhere on that car aside from the passenger side of the engine compartment. The power steering pump is tucked under the firewall partially, so getting at can be a pain. It's easier to come from the rear and underside of the car in my opinion.

If you need more help, SebringClub.net might be able to give you more info. (Not that Allpar isn't great!)

I'd be curious to see a picture of the white plastic pulley. I've done alot of work on that car (Successful 3.0L swap and more), and cannot think of anything like that being anywhere on that car...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Jerry, you're right. The pulley that actually goes on the pwr steering is black. The white pulley that was lodged under the motor in between those little trans lines were for him to put on the pwr steering later. He said it was one he had found and thought it could work. You and I both know that aint happening. You don't think I need to replace the whole pwr steering pump?? All I heard from the guy who sold it to me was that the pwr steering pump needed replacing. And from what I could tell, he only thought it was bad. He didn't know for a fact it was bad. The reason he thought pump was bad was because pwr steering fluid leaked out every time he put it in. He then tore and cut out that long line that Imperial thinks went to the pwr steering pump cooler. So is it possible that he is wrong about the pump needing replacing just because the fluid leaked out within 24 hours? He assumed it was the pump i think. I dont think he knew for sure it was the pump. Ive been fighting trying to get the pump off for days now and would love to try anything other than taking it off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
For a leak like that, I'd look at the small plastic reservoir that is mounted to the pump. It can crack, usually on the bottom at the rear, and if it does, it will leak almost constantly.

Oh, and despite what some sources say, you can buy just the reservoir if that is the culprit.

Also, the lines themselves can leak over time as they can dry out and crack. Not to mention the seals where they attach to the pump and the cooler.

For the pump itself to leak, it would have to have a cracked case. It's possible, but it's very unlikely. Replace your hoses, check the reservoir, degrease and wash the area, and check for further leaks.

(Keep in mind that if you are losing fluid, but cannot see it, it could be leaking from the lines or seals in the steering rack.)

To take it off fully, you need access to the rear (related to the car's orientation) of the engine. There is a bolt hidden at the rear of the pump that attaches it to the block. If you have the right tools and skinny/small hands, you can get to it from above by placing you hand between the intake and the firewall. The other bolts are much easier to deal with.

To check your pump itself you need it to be connected. If you can easily do that at this point, I would. If you've already got it off, it's a little too late.

With the pump fastened, the lines to the rack connected, and the other lines fastened or blocked off,and with fluid in the reservoir and the front wheels on the ground, start the engine. With the engine running, but the car stationary. Turn the wheel. Note the amount of effort required. Now, kill the engine, then turn the key to the run position again, but DO NOT START the car. Turn the wheel in the same manner and again note the effort required. If you can feel a difference, the pump is working just fine...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
ok. i put everything back together. Im ready to check for the real place where it is leaking. I believe you when you say pwr steering pump is prob not leaking. Before I pour any fluid in the reservoir though, I wont be able to do the pwr steering check if the belts not on. And where he took the hose off from the pumps cooler, could it possibly be leaking somewhere from that? I guess i need a belt and that single pulley reinstalled before I do the pwr steering pump test you described. Can I just get that pulley from a 99 at you pull it? And the belt maybe. Then pour fluid in the reservoir, test the pump by starting car, turning wheel, cutting car off, turning wheels again and then seeing if theres that difference? And finally, check under car at hoses, around reservoir and everywhere else i can think of for leaks? You think thats the next few steps now that everythings put back together? And if you know anything else I should look for or do or if im wrong, please let me know. Thanks!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
The only other question I have if anyone can help is, the pulley on the pwr steering pump. Do I need the install tool to put the new pulley onto the pump? It looks like theres no room for a removal tool down in there at all. But thank goodness the pulley is already off. All i see that is missing is the pwr steering pump's pulley and that little belt. Other than those two things, everything seems intact down there under the back of the motor. I think Im gonna need the install tool for the pulley but will that even fit? and should i check for anything while the pulley is off that i wouldnt be able to really see when the pulley is on there? Like are there some smart things i could do before putting the pulley back on to check the pump to see if its working?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
Wow - he took the pulley off too? I missed that part of the conversation... So there was no pulley on the pump when you bought it???

I am not sure if a pulley tool will fit, though it is possible. There is some room to work there. It will depend on the size of the tool most likely, as they vary in shape, design, and size.

If you want, you can remove the reservoir now and check it for leaks.

And yes, it is entirely possible that the system is leaking from his "repair," though that would not explain it leaking before hand.

There is not much else to check. Can you turn the pump? Are the hoses seated well and tight? Do you see any cracks? That's about all there is without hooking the rest up.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,365 Posts
The pulley is press-fit onto the pump shaft. It can be drawn on with a well-oiled bolt and washer. Make sure that the pulley draws on straight, if it cocks crooked it will bind going on. You may be able to do this with the pump already installed.
You might want to find out from the previous owner why he did what he did. Was it because of a P/S pump or cooler leak or maybe a P/S noise?
The cooler could also have caught something he ran over and it got torn off. I know that the cooler on mine wasn't secure to the front core support when I got my JX. The plastic retainer clips had broken.
Knowing this now may save you some labor of having to take it back apart.
If debris is in the fluid, replace the reservoir as it has a non-serviceable filter mesh screen inside that can plug.
I replaced the reservoir and pump on my '98 JX because of a pump 'whirr' at 2000 RPM and up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Correct. There was no pulley on the pwr steering pump, the other pulley is intact. You know, the one connected to the crankshaft big pulley? I think its called "crankshaft" pulley. But yea, the little black one that goes on the pump is gone. Now, I can buy one for 13 bucks no problem from Autozone or anywhere. I have to wait a day to get it ordered but this job has taken forever anyway so whats another day or ten. I dont know what to do when you asked if i could turn the pump because Im stupid sometimes. The top hoses that go on the reservoir seem good and tight. I dont see any cracks in the few places that i can see. So I can remove reservoir now? Only question I have then is how many bolts do I need to remove to get it off? I know I have to remove the two hoses but after that Im not sure. Man, this job is going horrible. If it wasnt for ya'll Id really be in trouble. Thanks!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Anyone know if i have to remove the power steering pump to be able to install a new pulley? Or can I put the new pulley and belt on the without removing pwr steering pump? Thanks!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,365 Posts
Maybe. You might be able to support the oil pan with a block of wood and a floor jack. Undo the right motor mount and lower the engine slightly to see if you can get a better shot at the pump. It is tight and awkward in there. Remove the RF wheel and splash shield.
Make sure that the vehicle is safely supported on jack stands before working underneath.
3 bolts attach the pump to it's bracketry at the rear of the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thanks. I will try that whole procedure and let ya know how it works out. It seems like the only option i have so thanks a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Well, poured fluid in the pwr steering pump's reservoir last night. By this morning it was empty. I dont have the pulley on there yet or the belt. Didnt run the car after filling up reservoir. Theres def a leak somewhere. Wow. Well, wish I knew where the motor mounts are. Been hunting for those since yesterday. I got the blocks of wood, hydraulic jack and jack stands, ramps and another jack. Even have a Haynes manual. I guess all i need is one of ya'll here to point and tell me what to do! Nah, really, I can handle this. I got all the time in the world. My daily car still runs. (for now)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
The Hayne's manual does suck - badly. It covers both the Coupe and Convertible - which are in no way related to each other through anything more than a name badge.

Anyway, the FSM is awesome (I have one digitally somewhere... If I can find it, I'll share.) but you can also use this resource:

search.ebscohost.com

The UN/PW is: "tech" (without quotations)

Once logged in, scroll down to "Auto Repair Reference Center" and select that.

^Still not as good as the FSM, but much better than Haynes.

In my opinion, you do not need to remove the motor mounts, as it will not gain you much more room the way the pump is tightly fitted.

If you do, however, there are 8 bolts that need to come out. From above with the hood open, you can see two of the mounts. On the front of the engine, and the passenger side of the car, there is an aluminum protrusion from the center area of the block with 3 bolts in it. I think they are 15mm. Those are the passenger side motor mount bolts. There is a similar looking protrusion on the driver's side. If you have the factory air intake snorkle in place, you may not be able to fully access it. That takes care of 6 of the 8 bolts.

The final 2 are accessed from underneath the engine. One is at the very front of the car, (it might be somewhat visible from above too) near where the exhaust header merges and turns downward. The final bolt is in a similar location on the rear side of the engine. It is very hard to access. The easiest way I have found is to move yourself reward and work above the sway bar and steering rack in the tunnel where the catalytic converter resides. It is tight, but that gives you a good view of what you're doing and offers the most room.

If you go to this much trouble, you ought to go ahead and replace your motor mounts (atleast the one on the sides of the block [front and rear of the car] - they are round in shape, where as the others are rectangular.). They are most likely broken already, as they are very weak by design. It's a pain to change them, so go ahead and do it now while you're there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I will def be getting that FSM today or tomorrow. I have to say though before I forget, I cant believe the assistance or help I get from Imperial Crown, Jerry Simick, (I could keep naming people but would take forever) and all the complete strangers from this allpar.com website. The people that Ive been fortunate enough to get replies from in my posts are kind, helpful and plenty knowledgeable. Its just something that needed to be said I guess. Thanks to all of ya'll!
Well, I cant work on getting that pwr steering out again until around Wednesday. Ive got to get the seats out of a 99 Sebring that just got dropped in the you pull it yard before someone else gets em. So hopefully the next post will be AFTER I get the pump out and im having questions about how to get the new one in. Anyway- Thanks again ya'll, Marc!
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top