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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 1995 Chrysler Cirrus that had a gummed up coolant system. I ran water and a cooling system cleaner through, and blasted water and air repetitively out the heater core for days. I managed to get everything in great shape, and I want to get the water out. There is NO coolant in this engine. Just tap water. I want to drain everything out of the engine so I can put coolant into it before winter arrives.

My question: is there a drain plug on the engine block somewhere? I want to get the water out. Draining the radiator only drains a little under half of the coolant capacity. I had a idea of draining all the water and putting 100% undilluted coolant into the radiator and hoping it would mix and create a 50/50 solution, but that won't work since the engine holds more than 50% of the system capacity. If not a drain plug, are there any ideas? Thanks!
 

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They should be there on the left and right side of the block a couple of inches above the oil pan rails. They may be obscured by an accessory, bracket or the starter motor.
The plug head is 14mm. Warming the plug slightly will soften the threadlock. P1030957a.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ImperialCrown said:
They should be there on the left and right side of the block a couple of inches above the oil pan rails. They may be obscured by an accessory, bracket or the starter motor.
The plug head is 14mm. Warming the plug slightly will soften the threadlock. P1030957a.jpg
Is that photo from the 2.5 V6 engine? Also, I do not have a torch of any sort to heat up the bolt, and I do not imagine a heat gun fitting in there. Would just penetrating oil work, then letting the engine get hot a few times? What material is the bolt and the block made of? I don't want any crappy aluminum to break off inside... been there. Done that. :frusty:
 

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The Mitsubishi V6's are similar and they they all should have block drain plugs.
A warmed up engine should be sufficient to soften the threadlock. It is steel, but seems softer than the surrounding cast iron block.
Use a 6-point 14mm socket and get 'straight' on the plug if you can. It is easy to 'round' the hex if one isn't careful.
The picture is of a similar V6 Mitsubishi Galant: http://www.thegalantcenter.org/showthread.php?41475-Engine-Drain-Plug-(Coolant)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I looked for about 15 minutes and could not see anything. There are too much components on the front side of this engine. Explorative surgery is required, unfortunately. And I am not sure how possible that is without removing the front end, there is no space between the radiator and the engine whatsoever. I had to pull the bumper to get it out previously. This is not worth the price to pay removing all the coolant, they did not make this easy.
 

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Rinse it with tap water a couple of times and just fill it with the proper G05 antifreeze.
( zerex g05, ford motorcraft/ motorcraft gold or volvo blue if you dont get it at the dealer)
- dont use dexcool "deathcool" note that most of all makes all models are dexcool clones....
- old green will work also.
Fill it up to minimum level with straight antifreeze, let it warm up and then adjust the strenght to whats needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I am planning on putting normal green in it. It's pretty good. Though blue sounds interesting :D I am just looking for the bolt, just to settle a restless mind. I wanna be sure the mixture is well enough to not ruin my block or break out the freeze plugs.

@AC TC: I have been there and done that with Dexcrap, Deathcool, etc. I have a family full of Chevrolet's. Luckily I caught my mom's car and my grandfather's truck in time. They were sludging up. And my mom's car needed new gaskets because of it. And Chevy uses plastic gaskets like idiots. That is almost like a guaranteed customer dealer come back right there... If Chrysler ever uses plastic gaskets in their important engine components, let me know.

While I jack up the car and look at the block, I have some more thinking material. I wasn't sure if I should post a new topic for this, so I'll put it here since we are discussing coolant. My car isn't getting up to operating temperature while driving still, and I haven't noticed it until now again because it is getting colder outside (55° this morning on the freeway) Which means it will be horrible when it is 20° like it was last year :( At idle it is fine, and will climb to operating temperature (cooling fans come on, gauge is in the right spot) Coolant pressure is up at operating temp, the hoses are firm. Car never overheats. No coolant in the oil. But I am not sure about the other way around. I couldn't tell if it was aged and never been changed coolant, or oil. It was awfully brownish/yellow chunks and what looked like dirt when I cleaned out the heater core.Thermostat replaced already, the old Mopar one checked out fine anyway. I am not sure what the problem is. But I called a few mechanics, they have told me it could be a pinhole leak, usually in the head gasket. I won't drive the car this winter if I don't have heat again for a second year in a row, and will consider another, as much as I love this car. And a head gasket replacement would cost more than the value of it. What do you think?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, I believe I found the drain plug. At least I hope. The 14mm is VERY sloppy fitting. I wouldn't try to torque on it, and the 13mm does not fit at all. The American's I have do not fit either. 9/16 is a sloppier fit, and 1/2 is smaller than 13. 17/32 starts to go on, but it won't go on more than 1/12 of an inch. Are there any more sizes in between? I hope this isn't a case of someone else has "been there and tried to do that" on here. The bolt doesn't look rounded...



 

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That's it! Only use a 14 mm 6-point socket for the least chance of damaging the plug. 9/16" is too sloppy and can round the plug hex. Sometimes after removed, nothing will come out if the hole is blocked with left-over sand from the casting process.
The Japanese are pretty good at getting the sand out before assembly, but I have seen some blocks with quite a bit of left over sand along the bottom of the water jacket.
I'm not a big fan of the old green coolant. There isn't enough aluminum protection in it. I prefer the orange HOAT and have also used the PEAK Global coolants.
Make sure that the heater control cable is properly adjusted so that the temperature door moves fully to the heat position. You should hear it 'thump' against its full heat stop when turning the temperature knob to full heat.
A heater core 'reverse flush' (flowing the other direction) may dislodge any blockage or restricting debris from the heater core. The old copper cores could corrode and restrict the tubes.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Okay. I will use the suggested coolants. How should I go about removing the casting sand, if any are still in there by chance?

The heater is properly adjusted. I adjusted it when I removed the HVAC system. There is no on and off valve for the heater core coolant hoses on this, it is always flowing and a blend door controls air flow to it. My engine just isn't getting to operating temp while driving, unfortunately. Hopefully it will once it gets coolant.
 

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" A heater core 'reverse flush' (flowing the other direction) may dislodge any blockage or restricting debris from the heater core."
I had to do this numerous times on my durango to get any kind of decent heat in my durango.
Flushed it backards, forwards with water and compressed air mixture until the water that came out was clear.
After a day or two it was blocked again and i had to do it all over again with lenghtening intervals...
My experience with fill straight water filled system with antifreeze is that about half of the water drains when removing
the lower radiator hoose so toping it up with pure antifreeze pretty much get everything to a 50/50 mix
 

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A 50/50 mixture will give the best anti-freeze, anti-boil and system performance. There is really nothing to be gained with stronger coolant mixtures. Besides the thermostat, the radiator cap is important for pressurizing and heat build-up.
If the plug comes out and the drain is blocked, try chipping away inside the hole at the blockage. The sand, if any, should crumble apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Okay, sounds good.

Maybe I should rephrase. The heater core WAS blocked. I flushed out for days and got it unclogged. Replaced thermostat. And radiator cap. Car cools DOWN below operating temperature at high spends (freeway) on my way to work. Heater gets really hot, but cools down. The close it gets, the worse it is. Operating temp is achievable in city driving not at high speeds. What can cause this? It was really cold today. And on the freeway th gauge did not go high, gas mileage shows car is not getting hot enough to enter closed loop. I got 200 miles to a 13 gallon tank with freeway driving. The summer miles are better. Sadly, I am out of ideas. Even though the thermostat is brand new, I have no idea why the car cools down even though it is closed.
 

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I'm leaning toward a thermostat that is allowing flow all the time for this type of problem. Warm-up will be slow and excessive cooling will take place when air is blowing through the radiator.
Is this an OEM thermostat? It is a double-poppet valve thermostat, so original design specs are important. getimage.php
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ImperialCrown said:
I'm leaning toward a thermostat that is allowing flow all the time for this type of problem. Warm-up will be slow and excessive cooling will take place when air is blowing through the radiator.
Is this an OEM thermostat? It is a double-poppet valve thermostat, so original design specs are important. getimage.php
I did not think that would be an issue! The one I installed did NOT have the 'dual valve' setup. But the one I removed did. What is it for? I noticed that the original that came out did have it, but I did not understand what it was for, really. Would this cause the issue?
 

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Yes, I'm willing to bet that is exactly the issue. It is a bypass for another coolant flow path. Without it, that path is fully open all the time. The bottom valve needs to be there for proper warm-up.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
How interesting. Well I just went and looked at it, and it appears that the replacement thermostat DOES have the bottom valve. I guess I did not pay attention before. I must be thinking about another part I installed that day.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Update:

Well I got the drain bolt out, hooray! It was blocked though. Not by casting sand, but chunks made up of aluminum, rubber, and calcium. A screwdriver aided in keeping the line clear, and I now have coolant in the engine. It is still not getting to operating temp, though. It takes like 10 minutes for the gauge to even start to raise, and my gas mileage sucks, a disappointing 13 MPG. I assume it is not leaving open loop mode for warmup. Help?
 

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Can you remove and compare your present thermostat with an OEM thermostat at your local parts counter? If all dimensions look the same, you may want to consider replacing it anyways?
 
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