[AllanC]

. . . .The plug/connector from the wiring harness to the fan motor is burnt up. Replaced fan but need to figure out which wire from the motor goes to the low and high speed wire. Maybe it doesn't matter, I need to find out before I put terminals on both sets of wires and turn on the power. Old plug was completely destroyed and both wires to the motor are blue. . . . .

Attached diagram shows color code for wiring to radiator fan motor. The pinout shows which color wire attached to terminals #1 and #3 respectively.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

Attached diagram shows color code for wiring to radiator fan motor. The pinout shows which color wire attached to terminals #1 and #3 respectively.

View attachment 89578

The plug that is shown, is that the male plug on the motor wire end, it has the pins whereas the harness has the female part. Just making sure.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

The plug that is shown, am I right that it is the male plug going to the fan motor? I wonder why they used 2 different size relays in the fuse panel, kind of weird?

 

[AllanC]

. . . .The plug that is shown, is that the male plug on the motor wire end, it has the pins whereas the harness has the female part. Just making sure. . . .

Correct. If you look at RockAuto.com and review all the vendors that supply radiator fan motors or fan motor assemblies show the wiring mounted to the motor has the 3 male pins in its connector. So the female mating connector is in the wiring harness that supplies power and ground to the electric motor.

. . . I wonder why they used 2 different size relays in the fuse panel, kind of weird? . . .

I am guessing that the fan motor has 2 windings inside it. One is energized for low speed and both are energized for high speed. Why the relays for low speed operation and high speed operation are different size is not obvious. The electrical current carrying capacity of the relay is dependent upon the size of the contact points and load side circuitry within the relay. Outside physical size of the relay has no bearing on the amperage capacity of the relay contacts.

As more electrical features are added and controlled by microprocessor software, more relays are needed. So packaging problems are somewhat alleviated if you can make the relays and other components smaller in physcial size but yet still carry desired electrical current.

Considering the number of electrical relays used across the industries (auto and others) a staggering quantity of relays are used in production. A sudden, major change to physical size and the vendor production cannot keep pace. So maybe changing the relay size was a phased implementation at the time. Just a guess on my part.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

Correct. If you look at RockAuto.com and review all the vendors that supply radiator fan motors or fan motor assemblies show the wiring mounted to the motor has the 3 male pins in its connector. So the female mating connector is in the wiring harness that supplies power and ground to the electric motor.



I am guessing that the fan motor has 2 windings inside it. One is energized for low speed and both are energized for high speed. Why the relays for low speed operation and high speed operation are different size is not obvious. The electrical current carrying capacity of the relay is dependent upon the size of the contact points and load side circuitry within the relay. Outside physical size of the relay has no bearing on the amperage capacity of the relay contacts.

As more electrical features are added and controlled by microprocessor software, more relays are needed. So packaging problems are somewhat alleviated if you can make the relays and other components smaller in physcial size but yet still carry desired electrical current.

Considering the number of electrical relays used across the industries (auto and others) a staggering quantity of relays are used in production. A sudden, major change to physical size and the vendor production cannot keep pace. So maybe changing the relay size was a phased implementation at the time. Just a guess on my part.

Thanks for your help. I thought too that maybe it was more due to saving money or other manufacturing advantage, nothing to do with actual use.

 

[ImperialCrown]

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

View attachment 89581

Correct. If you look at RockAuto.com and review all the vendors that supply radiator fan motors or fan motor assemblies show the wiring mounted to the motor has the 3 male pins in its connector. So the female mating connector is in the wiring harness that supplies power and ground to the electric motor.



I am guessing that the fan motor has 2 windings inside it. One is energized for low speed and both are energized for high speed. Why the relays for low speed operation and high speed operation are different size is not obvious. The electrical current carrying capacity of the relay is dependent upon the size of the contact points and load side circuitry within the relay. Outside physical size of the relay has no bearing on the amperage capacity of the relay contacts.

As more electrical features are added and controlled by microprocessor software, more relays are needed. So packaging problems are somewhat alleviated if you can make the relays and other components smaller in physcial size but yet still carry desired electrical current.

Considering the number of electrical relays used across the industries (auto and others) a staggering quantity of relays are used in production. A sudden, major change to physical size and the vendor production cannot keep pace. So maybe changing the relay size was a phased implementation at the time. Just a guess on my part.

Okay, one last question. That drawing you marked "pinout", that is looking at the plug, not the backside where the wires enter into the plug. The third picture of the plug by Imperial Crown showing the plug from the backside has me wondering about which side of the plug is shown. Sorry to be paranoid about this, I don't want to screw things up and make more work for myself. I plan on putting spade connectors or other crimp on connectors, not able to get into the area very easily to use a solder gun.

 

[ImperialCrown]

The terminal-insertion side is 1 through 3, left to right.
The view below is 3 through 1, facing the connector plug-in side.

Ground is in the center, so you will not accidentally burn anything up. Keep connections clean for low resistance. High resistance connections can generate heat.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

The terminal-insertion side is 1 through 3, left to right.
The view below is 3 through 1, facing the connector plug-in side.

View attachment 89585

Ground is in the center, so you will not accidentally burn anything up. Keep connections clean for low resistance. High resistance connections can generate heat.

Thanks, that is what I thought.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

I see a company called "Four Seasons" sales the fan motors without the connector and both hot wires are the same color (light blue) which to me means either wire can go to the slow or high speed circuits. The black wire in the middle is of course the ground wire. Does this make sense?

 

[ImperialCrown]

I would hope that clear instructions are sent with the motor kit, but I can't find a pdf on their website.
They may be legally required to say UNIVERSAL, which almost sounds like a 'buyer-beware' warning.

I would look for a good OEM deal to avoid any fit or function hassles.

 

[AllanC]

. . . .I see a company called "Four Seasons" sales the fan motors without the connector and both hot wires are the same color (light blue) which to me means either wire can go to the slow or high speed circuits. The black wire in the middle is of course the ground wire. Does this make sense? . . .

You can measure resistance of each blue wire to ground. Use volt-ohm meter and measure resistance between 1 blue wire and ground. Note the resistance. Then measure resistance between 2nd blue wire and ground. I am thinking the resistance readings will be very close in value. That implies that both windings internal to the fan motor are identical. Thus it does not matter which blue wire traveling to the fan motor is connected to the low speed relay or the high speed relay.

Go back and look at the diagram presented in post #9. Notice that the power wires to each fan motor winding are 12 gauge. Further evidence that the design has no difference in the amperage drawn by each separate winding.

. . . I would hope that clear instructions are sent with the motor kit, but I can't find a pdf on their website.They may be legally required to say UNIVERSAL, which almost sounds like a 'warning'.

I would look for a good OEM deal to avoid any fit or function hassles. . . .

I agree with the comment by ImperialCrown. I would suggest buying a replacement pigtail connector that replaces the damaged connector on the harness side with the receptacles. Here is an image of one that I found. Google this part # and you should find it. WVE 1P1080

It will probably be labeled crankshaft positiion senosr or camshaft position sensor. Same female receptacle as used on the radiator fan circuit.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

You can measure resistance of each blue wire to ground. Use volt-ohm meter and measure resistance between 1 blue wire and ground. Note the resistance. Then measure resistance between 2nd blue wire and ground. I am thinking the resistance readings will be very close in value. That implies that both windings internal to the fan motor are identical. Thus it does not matter which blue wire traveling to the fan motor is connected to the low speed relay or the high speed relay.

Go back and look at the diagram presented in post #9. Notice that the power wires to each fan motor winding are 12 gauge. Further evidence that the design has no difference in the amperage drawn by each separate winding.



I agree with the comment by ImperialCrown. I would suggest buying a replacement pigtail connector that replaces the damaged connector on the harness side with the receptacles. Here is an image of one that I found. Google this part # and you should find it. WVE 1P1080

It will probably be labeled crankshaft positiion senosr or camshaft position sensor. Same female receptacle as used on the radiator fan circuit.

View attachment 89587

That pigtail will not work. I already bought one and was unable to use it because the wiring size was way too small. That pigtiail is for a sensor which is low current vs. the fan motor which is high amperage. I could not find the correct pigtail so I am going to use male and female disconnects for #16 wire gauge which is what the harness and motor wiring are. I will then wrap several wraps of electrical tape to keep the connections clean and dry. The wiring on that pigtail looked like it was about #28 wire gauge. I did the ohms check and they are almost identical. It looks like the hots can go either way to me too.

 

[ImperialCrown]

Agree. The radiator fan does draw a high current. That may be why the last connector melted.
Smaller gauge wires can't take the current load.

 

[AllanC]

. . . .Agree. The radiator fan does draw a high current. That may be why the last connector melted. Smaller gauge wires can't take the current load. . . . .

As the radiator fan motor ages and gets more mechanical wear on the bushings and commutator brushes, more drag is induced which creates greater load and amperage draw through the wiring. More amps through the wires and this increases the wiring heat load especially at electrical connectors. I would suggest adding a second 16 gauge wire companion to the existing blue wire leads running to the fan motor.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

As the radiator fan motor ages and gets more mechanical wear on the bushings and commutator brushes, more drag is induced which creates greater load and amperage draw through the wiring. More amps through the wires and this increases the wiring heat load especially at electrical connectors. I would suggest adding a second 16 gauge wire companion to the existing blue wire leads running to the fan motor.

I hooked up the fan using male and female connectors for #16 AWG. Seems to be working fine. the internal resistance of the motor windings for both circuits were around 1.5 ohms, which means each, low and high speed, take about 8 amps, less when the motor is actually spinning due to EMF forces. I ran it for a couple minutes and the connectors did not get hot. I wrapped it up with electrical tape to keep out moisture. I used the plug drawing that was on the first response I got from AllanC to figure out what blue wire went where.

 

[Lonnie Johnston]

Thanks everyone. I will post if my connectors fail to do the job.