[limechallenger]

Hi guys I'm new here ,but not to the hobby! Anyway I've got a 04 chrysler 300m with two separate problems. #1 is the car will not start on first crank of key, if I turn ignition on for a few seconds, before I turn the key all the way, it stars right up. #2 is p0441 on the diagnostic codes. I'm looking for common solutions for both of these problems! Car just turned 150,000 miles after having timing belt done at 110,000.thx :thumbsup:

 

[Dave Z]

P0441 is an evaporative emission system leak, not likely to be related to the first problem, which I think is either a clogged fuel filter or aging / bad fuel pump getting ready to go.

Oh, wait. Maybe they ARE related.

This might sound stupid, but did you try taking the gas cap off and putting it on again, or replacing it entirely? That might clear up p0441. If there's a vent issue (whoosh! goes the air when you remove the cap), it might cause both problems.

I think you're reaching the end-of-life region for the fuel pump, though.

 

[limechallenger]

yea! I tend to agree with you on the fuel pump! I was looking for a common problem that all of these car experience! Thanks for the info though!

 

[FIREM]

P0441 Evap Emissions Code related to the NVLD system. Youtube has good troubleshooting tips for that.
Fuel pump failures not common to these cars and no servicable fuel filter on the 300M's
More info on your no start may help.
Cranks OK but won't run ?
When it starts runs rough at first?
Try turning the key on/ pause a few seconds then crank if starts ok could be injector leak down (more common than pump issues)
Won't crank/only clicks at first attempt? Starter Contacts would be suspect.
Search here: www.300mclub.org

 

[ImperialCrown]

Agree. If after sitting overnight the starter cranks it over but it won't fire, then the fuel pressure may not be sufficient. If you roll the key on to run the fuel pump for a second then off and then back on to try starting, the fuel pump will have primed the system and the car will fire up. Long cranking times is a symptom of this. Once they start, they are fine.
The fuel pump has an internal check valve that is only serviced with replacement of the pump assembly. This valve will hold fuel in the lines when the car sits. If the valve fails, then the fuel will drain back to the tank when sitting and the lines will have to be filled again in order to fire up and run.
The evaporative vapor emissions fault code generally won't affect starting, driveability or fuel economy issues. There should be a vacuum hose and component map on a label under the hood. This shows the vapor carrying lines that should be checked for any leaks. A .015" pinhole will set a fault code. 10 year old rubber hoses can crack from dry-rot or or soften and swell from oil exposure. A gas cap needs to also seal well. The NVLD (natural vacuum leak detector) contains a vacuum diaphragm controlled switch that can only close when the system is sealed from outside air and the temperature drops.


P0441-EVAP PURGE SYSTEM PERFORMANCE
When Monitored: Cold start test. Engine Running. Small Leak Test Passed.
Set Condition: The PCM activates the EVAP Purge solenoid gradually increases to
maximum flow. During flow, the PCM looks for the NVLD switch to close. If the PCM does
not see the NVLD switch close at maximum flow an error is detected.

 

[FIREM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5YjhQO2EHvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QCLqXx6SGI&feature=player_embedded

 

[John Wood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5YjhQO2EHvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QCLqXx6SGI&feature=player_embedded

Nice troubleshooting procedure and explanation of how purge valve functions. Thanks for posting that.