[Tom Brewer]

In September of 2019 I was cruising up I77 at about 70mph when after having stopped for a fillup about 10 miles before when NOTHING, shuts down completely, complete loss of loco motion. Pulled over to the side of the road and ended up being towed 201 miles home. The next day I did some checks for spark, fuel, OBD codes, etc. NOTHING, did some reading and decided it must be cam position sensor and/or computer. I installed the new CPS and NOTHING. Received a reconditioned computer a week later installed it and no change. (I did send it back and reinstalled the original) I then for some reason remember that it has a timing belt and pulled the cam top cover and bingo, no belt and figured this had to be the issue. (water pump was free spinning) I replaced the timing belt, idler pulley, tension adjuster/pulley, water pump and reassembled to the point that I could start it. NOTHING. I thoroughly checked for correct timing, tried again and NOTHING. I looked for information on whether the engine is/was an interference engine only to find conflicting opinions. I did compression checks and found little (30psi) to mediocre (90psi) compression on a couple cylinders. I did leak down test that were hit and miss. Both tests varied each time I performed them and where very inconsistent, anywhere from 8% to 29%. (even tried 2 different gauges) After some rumination I decided to pull the head to check for bent/damaged valve and after pulling the calves to check for concentricity did find some pitting on the seats and non-contact areas on the valves but NO bent valves. Had the head rebuilt, reinstalled and NOTHING. I went back and reinstalled/retimed it yesterday and NOTHING. I had purchased a crank sensor along with the cam sensor that I never bothered to install previously so I thought I’d try it. NOTHING. I went back through and checked/rechecked all connections that where disconnected while working on it. Funny thing is that now I don’t even have spark as before it at least spit and sputtered occasionally. The car only has 123k on it and is in great shape otherwise. I really hate to get rid of it but have a little cash and a LOT of time into it in the last 7 months. Plus a whole new suspension that was only about 6-8 months old when it went down. Won’t get anything for it in scrap, and I’d love to still be driving it but would also love the space that it’s been taking up in my garage. Really disappointed in this 05’ my first was an 01’ and the timing belt went when I replaced it when the water pump began leaking at 195k. That one died of unknown cause at 259k! Would anyone have any ideas on where I’d start from here after all that’s been done? I’ve never had my patience grown so thin as with this PT. Any suggestions and/or comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[06PTElectricBlue]

Since you've had pretty much everything apart, try switching the coil and cam position connectors.

They are the same connector, and both will reach each component. Many have made the same mistake during reassembly.

 

[valiant67]

Did you re-check compression after re-installing the head?
It's very hard to get the dots lined up on these when doing the timing belt.
Have you checked to see if you're getting spark and if the injectors are spraying?

 

[ImperialCrown]

Welcome to Allpar. These timing marks must be dead-nuts on the money. I use a small straight-edge ruler and angled dental mirror to verify the cam sprocket marks.
Then turn the crankshaft clockwise 2-turns and recheck the mark positions.
The crank mark arrow does point to the trailing edge of the belt crank sprocket tooth.
Both cam sprocket 2.4L FRONT must have the arrows facing up.
The spark is triggered by the crankshaft position sensor (CKP). The camshaft position sensor (CMP) does fuel injector #1 sync.
Start with some diagnosis from the very beginning.
The valves won't hit the pistons. This is a free-wheeling engine design.
I do recommend OEM engine sensors.

 

[Tom Brewer]

Since you've had pretty much everything apart, try switching the coil and cam position connectors.

They are the same connector, and both will reach each component. Many have made the same mistake during reassembly.

Thanks for the reply. I did have the cam sensor removed as I was intending to re-install the original and actually had trouble locating the connector for the (what I believed was the cam position sensor. Wouldn't it be crazy if that' all it is? I will try it later today. Assuming that it wouldn't do any damage?

 

[Tom Brewer]

Did you re-check compression after re-installing the head?
It's very hard to get the dots lined up on these when doing the timing belt.
Have you checked to see if you're getting spark and if the injectors are spraying?

I didn't recheck the compression but man it sure is hard to turn by hand from the crank. I will run another check. I'm not getting any spark that I can see, I actually pulled the top of the intake off and put a small amount of gas down each port and quickly bolted it back on with no results but hadn't checked the injectors themselves.Thanks

 

[Tom Brewer]

Welcome to Allpar. These timing marks must be dead-nuts on the money. I use a small straight-edge ruler and angled dental mirror to verify the cam sprocket marks.
Then turn the crankshaft clockwise 2-turns and recheck the mark positions.
The crank mark arrow does point to the trailing edge of the belt crank sprocket tooth.
Both cam sprocket 2.4L FRONT must have the arrows facing up.
The spark is triggered by the crankshaft position sensor (CKP). The camshaft position sensor (CMP) does fuel injector #1 sync.
Start with some diagnosis from the very beginning.
The valves won't hit the pistons. This is a free-wheeling engine design.
I do recommend OEM engine sensors.

I'm pretty sure that I have the timing correct and I do use a telescoping dental mirror to chack alignment. I turned 720 degrees at least a half dozen times, made sure of the 2.4l front and arrows are up. I am also sure that #1 is TDC, I have all alignment marks highlighted in yellow I can get maybe half a line of misalignment between the cam sprockets if I tweak the crank back and forth slightly depending on the angle that i'm viewing things at. I appreciate the assistance.

 

[AllanC]

. . . .I didn't recheck the compression but man it sure is hard to turn by hand from the crank. I will run another check. I'm not getting any spark that I can see, I actually pulled the top of the intake off and put a small amount of gas down each port and quickly bolted it back on with no results but hadn't checked the injectors themselves.. . .

With good compression on the cylinders it will take some effort to turn the crankshaft with a wrench.

There is a simple test to determine if the crankshaft position sensor is sending appropriate signals to the PCM (powertrain control module). First, turn the ignition key switch to the RUN position and pause. Do NOT turn to START. You should hear the electric fuel pump power up for 1 - 2 seconds and then stop. You may need to place a helper with good hearing down low and under the fuel tank to hear it run. If you do not get the fuel pump to run, then the PCM is not controlling it. There is a problem with a fuse, the fuel pump relay, and/or the wiring to the fuel pump in the tank or the electric pump itself.

If you do hear the fuel pump run initially for 1 - 2 seconds, then turn the ignition key switch to the START position and engage the starter for about 5 seconds. Release the key switch and let it return to the RUN position. You should hear the fuel pump continue to run for 1 - 2 seconds and then stop. If it behaves in this manner the crankshaft position sensor is functioning and sending a pulsing signal to the PCM. The no-start issue lies elsewhere. If you do not hear the fuel pump run after disengaging the starter then the crankshaft position sensor has failed or there is a wiring problem between the PCM and the crankshaft position sensor. The PCM must receive a pulsing signal from the crankshaft position sensor to engage the ASD and fuel pump relays.

Do you have a way to access a scan tool and check for diagnostic codes? If the PCM is not receiving appropriate signals from the crank and/or cam sensors, codes will be set.

 

[Tom Brewer]

Since you've had pretty much everything apart, try switching the coil and cam position connectors.

They are the same connector, and both will reach each component. Many have made the same mistake during reassembly.

Sir, You hit the nail on the head. Switched them and and it fired on the first rotation!

 

[Tom Brewer]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies. I printed all of your replies and was planning on trying all of the suggestions but I had had originally trouble "finding" one of the two connectors while reassembling and had to dig around the general area to find it and figured that I may have gotten the wrong one and 06PTElectricBlue's suggestion was the easiest to try, and viola!

 

[06PTElectricBlue]

Sir, You hit the nail on the head. Switched them and and it fired on the first rotation!

Since it was the easiest thing to try first, I'm sure that surprised you, and you couldn't believe that it could possibly be that easy

I would like to thank everyone for their replies. I printed all of your replies and was planning on trying all of the suggestions but I had had originally trouble "finding" one of the two connectors while reassembling and had to dig around the general area to find it and figured that I may have gotten the wrong one and 06PTElectricBlue's suggestion was the easiest to try, and viola!

I can't believe that someone would design both connectors to be the same, and that the wiring will reach each component

There has to be some Chrysler engineer laughing their head off

All that had to be done was to use 2 different style of connectors, so that they couldn't get switched, or make the length of one set of wires shorter so that it would only reach the correct part that it goes to.

 

[ImperialCrown]

This became 'tribal knowledge' in the dealer shops. Chrysler did eventually change the cam position sensor connector style.

 

[06PTElectricBlue]

This became 'tribal knowledge' in the dealer shops. Chrysler did eventually change the cam connector style.

And I was glad to read that the OP tried switching the connectors first and found out that it fixed the issue

Can you imagine how he would have felt had he torn the engine back apart to confirm the timing belt settings, only to find out that they had been dead on from the beginning, then reassemble everything and switch the connectors at that time, oh my