Allpar Forums banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all. Been a while since I've been here. Breaking a promise to myself to give up crawling under cars but..... Anyhow daughters 2010 Caravan 3.3 Turn key only hear door open dingle. Headlights and inside lights work. Nothing else. No signal lights, no dash lights nothing. OBD 11 cannot connect. Hot wired to starter activated but did not turn engine. Pulled starter but bench tested good. Battery good Checked all grounds etc. Not too familiar with new ignition switch deal. Any ideas. Thanks. Sometimes I long for old 2.2. 2.5. They were so nice to work on. Cliff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,996 Posts
. . . Anyhow daughters 2010 Caravan 3.3 Turn key only hear door open dingle. Headlights and inside lights work. Nothing else. No signal lights, no dash lights nothing. OBD 11 cannot connect. Hot wired to starter activated but did not turn engine. Pulled starter but bench tested good. Battery good Checked all grounds etc. . . . .
Check the positive and negative battery clamp connections at the battery. Even though they appear to be clean they can have a film coating of corrosion and prevent starter from operating.

Next, check the underhood fuse box near the battery and all the fuses. Attached image shows fuse box. Pay particular attention to fuse J17 which powers the starter solenoid.

Does the transmission selector (PRNDL) in the instrument cluster show a white box around the letter P? Vehicle must be in PARK or NEUTRAL position for the starter to operate. Move the transmission selector to N / NEUTRAL and determine if starter will operate. If no solution is found then I am thinking you may need the service of a repair facility with an appropriate scan tool which can monitor and determine if a proper command is being sent to the TIPM to engage the starter when the FOB key is turned to the START position.

Rectangle Font Material property Parallel Schematic
 

·
Super Moderator
1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
Joined
·
22,347 Posts
Do the headlamps stay bright through-out the 'start-ding'?
It sounds as if a branch of the power distribution is out, including the communication bus.
Check for power on both sides of the fuses in the diagram provided by Allan. Hopefully the problem is up top and easily accessible. It is losing power somewhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for responses. I have already checked all fuses, cleaned battery posts and grounds ,swapped out relays. In addition cannot move shift lever. Have tried supplying power to load side of fuse. Nothing. Not sure how key fob affects this.
 

·
Super Moderator
1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
Joined
·
22,347 Posts
The BTSI (brake-transaxle shift interlock) solenoid isn't being powered by the brake pedal light switch? It is independent of the key fob. It is supposed to be powered in the key ign position.
Do the brake lights work?
This is another important clue in the circuit branch that is down. All the circuits that aren't being powered must all have a common source that is dead. You have to find the point in the circuit that has opened.

Organism Rectangle Handwriting Font Circle
 
  • Like
Reactions: AllanC

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The BTSI (brake-transaxle shift interlock) solenoid isn't being powered by the brake pedal light switch? It is independent of the key fob. It is supposed to be powered in the key ign position.
Do the brake lights work?
This is another important clue in the circuit branch that is down. All the circuits that aren't being powered must all have a common source that is dead. You have to find the point in the circuit that has opened.

View attachment 82417
The BTSI (brake-transaxle shift interlock) solenoid isn't being powered by the brake pedal light switch? It is independent of the key fob. It is supposed to be powered in the key ign position.
Do the brake lights work?
This is another important clue in the circuit branch that is down. All the circuits that aren't being powered must all have a common source that is dead. You have to find the point in the circuit that has opened.

View attachment 82417
ok I will check later Van is not at my place. I already jumpered from battery to fuse/relay cluster. Depressed brakes before Again thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,996 Posts
. . . .The BTSI (brake-transaxle shift interlock) solenoid isn't being powered by the brake pedal light switch? It is independent of the key fob. It is supposed to be powered in the key ign position.
Do the brake lights work?
This is another important clue in the circuit branch that is down. All the circuits that aren't being powered must all have a common source that is dead. You have to find the point in the circuit that has opened. . . .
Adding to the theme that contributor ImperialCrown has suggested, attached is an image of the brake transmission shift interlock wiring as it relates to the dash mounted shifter lever. Check for power at various points as noted. Diagram is for a 2009 model but should be same wiring colors for 2010 model.

Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Adding to the theme that contributor ImperialCrown has suggested, attached is an image of the brake transmission shift interlock wiring as it relates to the dash mounted shifter lever. Check for power at various points as noted. Diagram is for a 2009 model but should be same wiring colors for 2010 model.

View attachment 82418
Thanks so much diagram will be very helpful. I will get back to van in a couple of days Will try your suggestions and get back
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Back again Odometer shows bad key message. Hadn't noticed before. Replaced FOB battery still no good. Dealer and independent locksmith tell me I must take vehicle to be reprogrammed also need new fob. Anybody have any experience with this or suggestions ? BTW brake lights do work Thanks Cliff
 

·
Super Moderator
1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
Joined
·
22,347 Posts
Starting the car is independent of a powered fob battery. The SKIM transponder is passive and detected by an antenna inside the column.
Any external damage to the key grip?
If she has a 2nd key, try that. It may not be a key problem.
The SKIM module inside the column may be part of the circuit branch that is out and can't detect the key.
 
  • Like
Reactions: valiant67

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Doesn't appear to be any damage. She does not have another key. Are you saying van should start even with a defective fob? Thanks for help. Cliff
 

·
Super Moderator
1966 Crown Coupe, 2016 200 S AWD, 1962 Lark Daytona V8.
Joined
·
22,347 Posts
Yes, the lock/unlock portion of the fobik is a battery-powered transmitter. The transponder 'chip' used to identify the fobik is a separate and passive RFID.

OPERATION
Each FOBIK has a unique transponder identification code permanently programmed into it by the manufacturer. Likewise, WIN has a unique "Secret Key" code programmed into it by the manufacturer as well. When a FOBIK is programmed into the memory of the WIN, the WIN stores the transponder identification code from the FOBIK, and the FOBIK learns the "Secret Key" code from the WIN. Once the FOBIK learns the "Secret Key" code of the WIN, it is also permanently programmed into the transponder's memory. Therefore, blank keys for the WIN must be programmed by the WIN. Refer to Electrical, Vehicle Theft Security, FOBIK Key, Standard Procedure - FOBIK Programming.
The FOBIK transponder is within the range of the WIN transceiver antenna ring when it is inserted into the ignition WIN. When the ignition switch is turned to the ON position, the WIN communicates with the FOBIK via a radio frequency (RF) signal. The WIN will determine if a valid key is present based on the information it receives from the FOBIK. If a valid key is detected, that fact is communicated to the PCM via the PCI bus and the vehicle is allowed to continue running. If an invalid key is received by the PCM or no status at all is communicated, the vehicle will stall after two (2) seconds of running. The indicator light will be flashing at this point. The FOBIK transponder can not be repaired. If it is faulty or damaged, it must be replaced.


REMOTE KEYLESS ENTRY
The Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) system allows the use of a remote battery-powered radio transmitter to communicate with the TIPM to actuate the power lock system.
The RKE transmitters are also equipped with a Panic button. If the Panic button on the RKE transmitter is depressed, the horn will sound and the exterior lights will flash on the vehicle for about three minutes, or until the Panic button is depressed a second time. Pressing the Panic button also activates the courtesy lamps. Pressing the Panic button again stops the exterior lamps from flashing and the horn from sounding. However, the courtesy lamps will remain illuminated until either the TIPM times out lamp operation or until the turning of the ignition. The panic feature will operate if the ignition is ON, but only if the Panic button is pressed prior to starting the vehicle. A vehicle speed of about 25.7 km/h (15 miles-per-hour) will also cancel the panic event.
The RKE system can also perform other functions on this vehicle. If the vehicle is equipped with the optional Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS), the RKE transmitter will arm the VTSS when the Lock button is depressed, and disarm the VTSS when the Unlock button is depressed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yes, the lock/unlock portion of the fobik is a battery-powered transmitter. The transponder 'chip' used to identify the fobik is a separate and passive RFID.

OPERATION
Each FOBIK has a unique transponder identification code permanently programmed into it by the manufacturer. Likewise, WIN has a unique "Secret Key" code programmed into it by the manufacturer as well. When a FOBIK is programmed into the memory of the WIN, the WIN stores the transponder identification code from the FOBIK, and the FOBIK learns the "Secret Key" code from the WIN. Once the FOBIK learns the "Secret Key" code of the WIN, it is also permanently programmed into the transponder's memory. Therefore, blank keys for the WIN must be programmed by the WIN. Refer to Electrical, Vehicle Theft Security, FOBIK Key, Standard Procedure - FOBIK Programming.
The FOBIK transponder is within the range of the WIN transceiver antenna ring when it is inserted into the ignition WIN. When the ignition switch is turned to the ON position, the WIN communicates with the FOBIK via a radio frequency (RF) signal. The WIN will determine if a valid key is present based on the information it receives from the FOBIK. If a valid key is detected, that fact is communicated to the PCM via the PCI bus and the vehicle is allowed to continue running. If an invalid key is received by the PCM or no status at all is communicated, the vehicle will stall after two (2) seconds of running. The indicator light will be flashing at this point. The FOBIK transponder can not be repaired. If it is faulty or damaged, it must be replaced.


REMOTE KEYLESS ENTRY
The Remote Keyless Entry (RKE) system allows the use of a remote battery-powered radio transmitter to communicate with the TIPM to actuate the power lock system.
The RKE transmitters are also equipped with a Panic button. If the Panic button on the RKE transmitter is depressed, the horn will sound and the exterior lights will flash on the vehicle for about three minutes, or until the Panic button is depressed a second time. Pressing the Panic button also activates the courtesy lamps. Pressing the Panic button again stops the exterior lamps from flashing and the horn from sounding. However, the courtesy lamps will remain illuminated until either the TIPM times out lamp operation or until the turning of the ignition. The panic feature will operate if the ignition is ON, but only if the Panic button is pressed prior to starting the vehicle. A vehicle speed of about 25.7 km/h (15 miles-per-hour) will also cancel the panic event.
The RKE system can also perform other functions on this vehicle. If the vehicle is equipped with the optional Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS), the RKE transmitter will arm the VTSS when the Lock button is depressed, and disarm the VTSS when the Unlock button is depressed.
Thank you very much for the detailed explainaiton. It now all makes sense. I will continue to trouble shoot following your suggestions. Fortunately this is not her only vehicle so I'm not under the gun to get it fixed..Will let you know results. Cliff
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top