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LtjimT said:
Going to a 2500 is a big step up in capability that isn't needed for many of us truck consumers. I have a 2001 dakota quadcab,4x4,4.7,3.92 with all the HD options that were available. It has served me well (230,000 miles), but want to replace it with a half ton with reasonably good payload and tow rating. It will be our everyday driver and trip vehicle including some towing duty. I don't like to carry or tow up against factory rating( though I have with the Dakota with surprisingly good results), especially on trips vs. local. The diesel/8speed sounds like a perfect drivetrain combination for my use. We have a 2005 Liberty CRD which I am very happy with so aVMmotori diesel I would welcome.I Like the rambox, but that reduces effective payload as well. May have to stay at SLT/Bighorn vs Laramie to make the capability number work and I think that is an unfortunate compromise to have to make.
This is something I really agree with, though doubt it will happen (at least anytime soon). A dakota sized truck with the VM 3.0 Diesel and 8 speed ZF transmission would get fantastic mileage, outdoing a whole pile of other vehicles that are smaller and lighter than the Dakota would be. I really do not see this happening though, has any truck manufacturer ever put an identical powerplant in a half ton and a mid size?
 

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Slant six, 3.9L V6, 4.3L chevy, 4.0L (family)V6 Ford, just off the top of my head.
 

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I'm not needing 10,000lbs + towing but am needing a replacement for my 1500 4x4 QC 8ft box. Ram is the only one who doesn't make one. Reaching the point soon where i'll have no other choice than to leave Ram.
 

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hotmach said:
I'm not needing 10,000lbs + towing but am needing a replacement for my 1500 4x4 QC 8ft box. Ram is the only one who doesn't make one. Reaching the point soon where i'll have no other choice than to leave Ram.
1500 QC? What is QC?
Quick change?
 

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MoparNorm said:
People have been trying to get by on the cheap, for decades.
In the 1980's those little Toyota crap boxes and flatbeds with 1 ton ratings were very, very, popular.
There are very few of them still on the road. The suspensions, frames, brakes, clutches, transmissions and engines did not hold up when actually worked. I mostly see them as gardeners trucks now, hauling 100 lb. lawn mowers.
Again, if you have a need to work, get the proper size truck. There was a reason Toyota's got bigger in the US, we work our trucks beyond the ratings and they take a beating. What worked in Japan did not work here.
I see them mostly as wrecking yard parts runners. Throw a motor or other car parts on the back and off to the accident repair shop to drop off the parts. I haven't seen them too often for landscaping lately. Most of the time it's a cab over flat bed in my area. Like what the Ducato will supply. But from Isuzu, & Fuso.
 

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hotmach said:
I'm not needing 10,000lbs + towing but am needing a replacement for my 1500 4x4 QC 8ft box. Ram is the only one who doesn't make one. Reaching the point soon where i'll have no other choice than to leave Ram.
Yup, your right, the 1500 4x4 4dr 8ft box isn't available, but a 2500 4x4 4dr crew 8ft box Laramie long horn, out doors man, Laramie, big horn, lone star, SLT Crew 4dr, & Tradesman 4dr 4x4 8ft box is available.
Tradesman 4x4 4dr 8ft box starts at $36000. (Not counting tax or any options.)
 

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I have been trying to justify the added price weight and ride of a 2500 so i could stay with Ram, fact is i don't need that much truck. Work with a lot of contractors that have driven Rams for years and have migrated to Ford or Chevy for this 8ft box factor. All of our Municipal Rams are disappearing for this reason too. A lot of 4x8 materials out there that are not necessarily heavy.

Just checked Ram.ca - Here in Canada (vinyl seat version) base ST 4dr 2500 4x4 8ftbox after discounts $46,190.00 + 13%tax
 

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"Half ton", "Three-quarter ton", and "One ton" monikers have been inaccurate for many years. It amounts now to truck makers have their light chassis configurable in a number of capabilities, a mid-level chassis configurable in a number of capacities, and a heavier chassis configurable in a number of capacities, with Chrysler having even-heavier and a heavier-still chassis too.

What it amounts to is a balance of price, capacity (in some states impacting taxes), fuel economy, and suspension comfort as to how the truck manufacturer balances these. Personally, if a truck is going to be a daily driver with only occasional towing like a car on a trailer, give me the most comfortable ride possible, and if that's coils in back and that means towing only one car, I'm fine with that tradeoff, and I expect 90% of buyers of the lightest class of full-sized truck would be too.
 

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MoparNorm said:
People have been trying to get by on the cheap, for decades.
In the 1980's those little Toyota crap boxes and flatbeds with 1 ton ratings were very, very, popular.
There are very few of them still on the road. The suspensions, frames, brakes, clutches, transmissions and engines did not hold up when actually worked. I mostly see them as gardeners trucks now, hauling 100 lb. lawn mowers.
Again, if you have a need to work, get the proper size truck. There was a reason Toyota's got bigger in the US, we work our trucks beyond the ratings and they take a beating. What worked in Japan did not work here.
MoparNorm said:
People have been trying to get by on the cheap, for decades.
In the 1980's those little Toyota crap boxes and flatbeds with 1 ton ratings were very, very, popular.
There are very few of them still on the road. The suspensions, frames, brakes, clutches, transmissions and engines did not hold up when actually worked. I mostly see them as gardeners trucks now, hauling 100 lb. lawn mowers.
Again, if you have a need to work, get the proper size truck. There was a reason Toyota's got bigger in the US, we work our trucks beyond the ratings and they take a beating. What worked in Japan did not work here.
I learned how to drive stick in one of these beauties. At the time the company I worked for had two 1986 models. Both were 4 speeds and had about 350,000 miles on them but my boss would have me load up two pallets of paint (54 5-gallon pails!) and deliver all over southern California. They still ran good but what death traps they were!
 

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Discussion Starter #31
"Half ton", "Three-quarter ton", and "One ton" monikers have been inaccurate for many years. It amounts now to truck makers have there light chassis configurable in a number of capabilities, a mid-level chassis configurable in a number of capacities, and a heavier chassis configurable in a number of capacities, with Chrysler having even-heavier and a heavier-still chassis too. What it amounts to is a balance of price, capacity (in some states impacting taxes), fuel economy, and suspension comfort as to how the truck manufacturer balances these. Personally, if a truck is going to be a daily driver with only occasonal towing like a car on a trailer, give me the most comfortable ride possible, and if that's coils in back and that means towing only one car, I'm fine with that tradeoff, and I expect 90% of buyers of the lightest class of full-sized truck would be too.

I completely agree with all of that. None of the 5 manufacturers of "1/2" ton pickups comply to 1/2 ton payload. At least in Rams case 1/2 ton applies to the max hitch weight. (which it probably should) 90% of buyers yes my question; why not take the selling points and more sales from Ford? Structurally any reason 11,350/2000 is unsafe for the typical twice a summer tow? Say as a 5th wheel with air leveling or air bags on the truck. And no I don't own a 5th and I am not looking to buy one.
 

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hotmach said:
I have been trying to justify the added price weight and ride of a 2500 so i could stay with Ram, fact is i don't need that much truck. Work with a lot of contractors that have driven Rams for years and have migrated to Ford or Chevy for this 8ft box factor. All of our Municipal Rams are disappearing for this reason too. A lot of 4x8 materials out there that are not necessarily heavy.

Just checked Ram.ca - Here in Canada (vinyl seat version) base ST 4dr 2500 4x4 8ftbox after discounts $46,190.00 + 13%tax
Ram Ca Ram ST, too bad the tradesman isn't offered in Canada.
 

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I just hope the VM3.0L crd Ram 1500 sells so many that they realize that motor should be made in the USA for the north american market and may the overseas market be flooded with this truck.

Still looking forward to Wrangler VM3.0L crd.
Still hope management will reconsider 300 crd & charger crd & patrol charger crd.
 

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66coronet said:
I just hope the VM3.0L crd Ram 1500 sells so many that they realize that motor should be made in the USA for the north american market and may the overseas market be flooded with this truck.

Still looking forward to Wrangler VM3.0L crd.
Still hope management will reconsider 300 crd & charger crd & patrol charger crd.
I'd love to see that motor built in the US, but the VM motor is excellent and because of the Penske ownership, the plant is efficient and modern. I don't have a problem with that motor at all.
I do think, in order to meet demand, for all of the products you mention, a second plant might be needed. There is a need for another US Pentastar plant as well, although Duckie may know what is planned in the few empty and under utilized buildings that are getting expanded lines for engine components, etc.
For either engine, all that is needed is time and money...a lot of time and a lot of money.
 

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I would not mind seeing the VM/8 spd combo in a Power Wagon although if I remember right the PW has 4.56 gears which would probably mean different internal ratios would be needed for the 8 spd.
 

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MoparNorm said:
I'd love to see that motor built in the US, but the VM motor is excellent and because of the Penske ownership, the plant is efficient and modern. I don't have a problem with that motor at all.
I do think, in order to meet demand, for all of the products you mention, a second plant might be needed. There is a need for another US Pentastar plant as well, although Duckie may know what is planned in the few empty and under utilized buildings that are getting expanded lines for engine components, etc.
For either engine, all that is needed is time and money...a lot of time and a lot of money.
Good thing is that an expensive diesel aftertreatment systems are Made in Michigan (by Bosch).

But, regarding the VM Motori ownership. GM owns the other half.

Fiat's 2012 Annual report
VM Motori

Following the acquisition of the 50% interest in the VM Motori group, the Fiat Group is party to a put and call
agreement with General Motors under which two years after the date of this acquisition Fiat will have the right to
buy the residual interest in VM Motori from General Motors. Furthermore, General Motors has a put option to sell
its interest in VM Motori to Fiat if certain conditions occur.

http://www.fiatspa.com/en-US/investor_relations/financial_reports/FiatDocuments/Bilanci/2012/FiatGroup_Annual_Report_2012_ENG.pdf
 

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Bran said:
Good thing is that an expensive diesel aftertreatment systems are Made in Michigan (by Bosch).

But, regarding the VM Motori ownership. GM owns the other half.

Fiat's 2012 Annual report
Yes, my reference to Penske was in regards to the updates and modernization at VM, which took place under his ownership. I did not state that he still owned it. Rumors have circulated for many months that Fiat is negotiating with GM to buy them out, but given the turmoil in Europe and Fiat's cash position, that's likely not a priority.
 

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Does anyone know for certain which Ecodiesel the Ram 1500 will get?
I think everyone here expects the 3.0 V6 Ecodiesel.
Petersen's 4 Wheel & Off Road is reporting it will be the 3.0 inline 4 Ecodiesel from the Promaster.
 

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CherokeeVision said:
Does anyone know for certain which Ecodiesel the Ram 1500 will get?
I think everyone here expects the 3.0 V6 Ecodiesel.
Petersen's 4 Wheel & Off Road is reporting it will be the 3.0 inline 4 Ecodiesel from the Promaster.
I'm pretty sure it is the VM 3.0, however that is based upon the GC getting the VM 3.0.
IMO, If its the Fiat 3.0 4 cylinder, that may prove to be an error in judgement, based upon utilization of Fiat components and not performance, which could be a mistake.
 

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CherokeeVision said:
Does anyone know for certain which Ecodiesel the Ram 1500 will get?
I think everyone here expects the 3.0 V6 Ecodiesel.
Petersen's 4 Wheel & Off Road is reporting it will be the 3.0 inline 4 Ecodiesel from the Promaster.
http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/2014/ram_1500/ecodiesel

Ram Trucks said:
It's official: our first Light Duty diesel truck is coming Fall of 2013. With an expected boost in V6 efficiency and capability, the 3.0-liter EcoDiesel V6 engines promises to be our most cutting-edge engine to date.
It was announced by Chrysler at Detroit that it would be "the same VM diesel used in the Grand Cherokee".

ProMaster is a different vehicle with different engines.

Mike
 
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