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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
SouthPawXJ said:
How does the leather feel in the limited (tbh I've never felt a Louis Vuitton handbag)? It can't be worse than my 06 Liberty Limited... I've had vinyl truck bench seats that had a better "feel" than those seats...
I cant say that it does.....feels like vinyl...first word that comes to mind is "cheap" and that drives me crazy......
 

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CJDsalespro said:
I cant say that it does.....feels like vinyl...first word that comes to mind is "cheap" and that drives me crazy......
Without having felt the new seat it sounds like they may have gone from top grain to a split. If you picture the cross section of a leather hide and could slice it in half horizontally, the "top grain" is the outside of the skin and the "split" is the inside or flesh side. Home furniture, belts, shoes, wallets, purses are usually made from splits. They tend to be cheaper, thicker, and have a much different feel than top grain which tends to be softer and can have more flexibility (or "break" as it's called in the leather industry). The wear characteristics are also different and splits have been making inroads into the auto leather business for a few years now.

I'm about five years removed from the leather business but Chrysler used to procure some of the cheapest stuff on the market (Brazilian hides slathered with finish and a hard embossed grain) during the DBAG years. I'll try to get to a dealer in the next couple weeks and compare the 2014 Limited to Overland. My father's 2012 Overland certainly feels like top grain but there is a tendency to decontent vehicles over their life cycle, hope that isn't happening here.
 
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
TonyM said:
Without having felt the new seat it sounds like they may have gone from top grain to a split. If you picture the cross section of a leather hide and could slice it in half horizontally, the "top grain" is the outside of the skin and the "split" is the inside or flesh side. Home furniture, belts, shoes, wallets, purses are usually made from splits. They tend to be cheaper, thicker, and have a much different feel than top grain which tends to be softer and can have more flexibility (or "break" as it's called in the leather industry). The wear characteristics are also different and splits have been making inroads into the auto leather business for a few years now.

I'm about five years removed from the leather business but Chrysler used to procure some of the cheapest stuff on the market (Brazilian hides slathered with finish and a hard embossed grain) during the DBAG years. I'll try to get to a dealer in the next couple weeks and compare the 2014 Limited to Overland. My father's 2012 Overland certainly feels like top grain but there is a tendency to decontent vehicles over their life cycle, hope that isn't happening here.
The diffrence between the leather in the 2013 Limited vs Overland is night and day.....But I I'd say the leather in the 2013 Laredo x was nicer than these 2014 Ltd's
 

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TonyM said:
Without having felt the new seat it sounds like they may have gone from top grain to a split. If you picture the cross section of a leather hide and could slice it in half horizontally, the "top grain" is the outside of the skin and the "split" is the inside or flesh side. Home furniture, belts, shoes, wallets, purses are usually made from splits. They tend to be cheaper, thicker, and have a much different feel than top grain which tends to be softer and can have more flexibility (or "break" as it's called in the leather industry). The wear characteristics are also different and splits have been making inroads into the auto leather business for a few years now.

I'm about five years removed from the leather business but Chrysler used to procure some of the cheapest stuff on the market (Brazilian hides slathered with finish and a hard embossed grain) during the DBAG years. I'll try to get to a dealer in the next couple weeks and compare the 2014 Limited to Overland. My father's 2012 Overland certainly feels like top grain but there is a tendency to decontent vehicles over their life cycle, hope that isn't happening here.
You could be right as I thought I remember Chrysler execs saying they overshot on what they had put into the cars compared to the competition...maybe they see they don't need Nappa leather in all models just the higher end ones...heck isn't Nappa leather an option on BMW's? and then only on the higher models such as the 5 and 7 series?
BTW, does Nappa leather wear better than other leather that is usually used in most mainstream autos?
 

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Chase300 said:
You could be right as I thought I remember Chrysler execs saying they overshot on what they had put into the cars compared to the competition...maybe they see they don't need Nappa leather in all models just the higher end ones...heck isn't Nappa leather an option on BMW's? and then only on the higher models such as the 5 and 7 series?
BTW, does Nappa leather wear better than other leather that is usually used in most mainstream autos?
I honestly don't know if they have it as an option on higher-end Bimmers, but their standard leather is some of the nastiest rhino-butt-hide I've ever seen. The stuff Porsche uses in the Cayenne is also extremely poor, btw.
The fact is that most people either don't mind or apparently don't know any better; leather is a selling point, and as long as that box is checked, everything is fine.

CJDsalespro said:
The diffrence between the leather in the 2013 Limited vs Overland is night and day.....But I I'd say the leather in the 2013 Laredo x was nicer than these 2014 Ltd's
Let me guess: they feel "plasticky"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
RVC said:
I honestly don't know if they have it as an option on higher-end Bimmers, but their standard leather is some of the nastiest rhino-butt-hide I've ever seen. The stuff Porsche uses in the Cayenne is also extremely poor, btw.
The fact is that most people either don't mind or apparently don't know any better; leather is a selling point, and as long as that box is checked, everything is fine.


Let me guess: they feel "plasticky"?
yes that is a good description.... :thumbsdown:
 

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RVC said:
I honestly don't know if they have it as an option on higher-end Bimmers, but their standard leather is some of the nastiest rhino-butt-hide I've ever seen. The stuff Porsche uses in the Cayenne is also extremely poor, btw.
The fact is that most people either don't mind or apparently don't know any better; leather is a selling point, and as long as that box is checked, everything is fine.


Let me guess: they feel "plasticky"?
Isn't the base leather in a BMW a "leatherette"?
 
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Chase300 said:
You could be right as I thought I remember Chrysler execs saying they overshot on what they had put into the cars compared to the competition...maybe they see they don't need Nappa leather in all models just the higher end ones...heck isn't Nappa leather an option on BMW's? and then only on the higher models such as the 5 and 7 series?
BTW, does Nappa leather wear better than other leather that is usually used in most mainstream autos?
Nappa is usually a very high end option and for good reason . . . it's expensive! :) Nappa, specifically, is full grain unsplit (meaning the "top grain" and "split" portions mentioned above are still one piece). It's also a specific tanning process to improve softness while maintaining some durability. In my experience, some leathers advertised as "nappa" don't necessarily adhere to the nappa tanning process. ;) It's mainly a marketing/image thing to call it "nappa". Kind of like Connolly leather still being advertised (Connolly was actually bankrupted in the early 2000s, the Ford Tbird launch ate their lunch due the many colors they needed to develop and the century plus old family company went belly up, my company stepped in to pick up the Tbird program so Ford could launch the vehicle) even though it may not go through the Connolly leather making process.

As for wear, that's dependent on numerous factors. Chief among those factors are seat design and finish but other things like grain emboss have an impact on overall appearance of wear (retention of dirt or "soiling"). Some really high end leathers are built on poor seat designs which allow the leather to be chaffed or the cushion panel to be baggy which creates stress cracks and wear point on the panel.


RVC said:
I honestly don't know if they have it as an option on higher-end Bimmers, but their standard leather is some of the nastiest rhino-butt-hide I've ever seen. The stuff Porsche uses in the Cayenne is also extremely poor, btw.
The fact is that most people either don't mind or apparently don't know any better; leather is a selling point, and as long as that box is checked, everything is fine.
I just rode in a 2008 Cayenne GTS today, actually. It isn't terrible leather by any means, by the seats are very taught which gives the illusion that the leather is stiff and hard. The grain is very heavy which also contributes to it's cheap feeling. The tight seat cushion should bode well for wear on that part of the seat but the huge bolsters will probably exhibit wear more quickly (the grain will hide some of that).

UN4GTBL said:
Isn't the base leather in a BMW a "leatherette"?
Yep, vinyl through and through. Same with MBTex. Same with VW.


Fun fact with respect to the grain found in automotive leathers, it's 100% fake. Cow/Steer hides have no/minimal grain of any kind, they're really pretty smooth. Grains are embossed on the hides with huge rollers, a lot of pressure, and a good bit of heat. We did some pretty wild grains on concept cars and the like a few years ago, stuff that probably wouldn't wear very well in the consumer market, haha.
 

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CJDsalespro said:
I cant say that it does.....feels like vinyl...first word that comes to mind is "cheap" and that drives me crazy......
From the many reviews of the 2014 I've read several times that the leather in the Limited trim does feel quite a bit downmarket compared to the Nappa leather in the Overland and whatever they're using in the Summit.

Has anyone sat in the Poltrona Frau leather seats in the SRTs yet?

And thanks TonyM! Very interesting stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Just for the record...... We have recieved more LTD's durring the last couple of days and the leather issues are no longer a problem. It could have been just a bad batch of hides. Whatever the reason is the ones being shipped now have a much better feel than the first ones that we recieved. :thumbsup:
 

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Re Hemi with the 8-speed: and that is why, ladies and gentlemen, I couldn't wait for the five speed tranny to die a very fast and horrible death...and of course, that also includes the 4-5-6 speed in the Ram.
 
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