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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ordering for the '20 models was closed on November 1st.

Sources indicate the very short ordering window was not the result of any marketing strategy, but by a production constraint - no transmissions !

Production of the A580 5-spd was discontinued at Kokomo 2 in August of 2018. Since then, Brampton had quickly used up the remaining inventory, as sales of Pursuit models continued to rise, requiring SRT to engineer the application of the 850RE and 8HP70 in the cars. As the '20 model introductions neared, the supply of A580's disappeared just as the GM strike hit, along with strong V8 retail sales, which likely affected availability for the Fleet products. Indeed, two of the 4 Chargers tested at MSP 2020 evaluations used retail shifters and consoles, which obviously won't fly with customers out in the field.

What is unknown at this time is whether future availability of the 8-spds will allow Fleet the chance to create another window for ordering in the 2020 model year. It sounds more like they want to perfect the new assemblies for the '21s.

In the meantime, the Durango Pursuit is taking some flak for its console shifter and low top-speed. Goodyear is said to be developing suitable pursuit tires in the Durango's size, but this is more subjective than the shifter complaint - the 2020 Tahoe 4×4 PPV topped out at 122 mph in this year's MSP tests. The shifter is a stronger complaint - it's at least partially what killed off the Chevy/Holden Caprice PPV.
 

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On another site I did read an officer's complaint about the shifter. I've not driven a Durango but I guess it hits the knee or something.
 

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Ordering for the '20 models was closed on November 1st.

Sources indicate the very short ordering window was not the result of any marketing strategy, but by a production constraint - no transmissions !


Production of the A580 5-spd was discontinued at Kokomo 2 in August of 2018. Since then, Brampton had quickly used up the remaining inventory, as sales of Pursuit models continued to rise, requiring SRT to engineer the application of the 850RE and 8HP70 in the cars. As the '20 model introductions neared, the supply of A580's disappeared just as the GM strike hit, along with strong V8 retail sales, which likely affected availability for the Fleet products. Indeed, two of the 4 Chargers tested at MSP 2020 evaluations used retail shifters and consoles, which obviously won't fly with customers out in the field.

What is unknown at this time is whether future availability of the 8-spds will allow Fleet the chance to create another window for ordering in the 2020 model year. It sounds more like they want to perfect the new assemblies for the '21s.

In the meantime, the Durango Pursuit is taking some flak for its console shifter and low top-speed. Goodyear is said to be developing suitable pursuit tires in the Durango's size, but this is more subjective than the shifter complaint - the 2020 Tahoe 4×4 PPV topped out at 122 mph in this year's MSP tests. The shifter is a stronger complaint - it's at least partially what killed off the Chevy/Holden Caprice PPV.
:eek:

And the fact that the Charger has no direct competitors left in its vehicle size and price classes; Chevy Impala and Ford Taurus both left earlier this year; is also goosing sales of the (relatively) ancient model. Why I say ancient is the Charger came out in 2006 (14 years ago), received a major restyle for 2011 (9 years ago) and had a minor nose and tail job for 2015 (5 years ago).
 
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2017 Charger Pursuit AWD
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
:eek:

And the fact that the Charger has no direct competitors left in its vehicle size and price classes; Chevy Impala and Ford Taurus both left earlier this year; is also goosing sales of the (relatively) ancient model. Why I say ancient is the Charger came out in 2006 (14 years ago), received a major restyle for 2011 (9 years ago) and had a minor nose and tail job for 2015 (5 years ago).
Far more important to law enforcement is cost - the Chargers cost less to purchase, less to operate, and bring higher resale.

To clarify the timeline just a bit -

2006 - 2010, LX
2011 - 2021, LD

The changes made to the 2011 LD models completely erased the Daimler remnants from the cars. From that point onward, literally everything (except transmissions) in and on the cars was/is engineered by Chrysler, and produced in North America. The A580, 850RE, and 8HP70 transmissions are, of course, Chrysler adaptations of ZF assemblies.

The Caprice never really caught on. It was quite expensive, had the bizarre console shifter, and used an oddball tire size. It performed well, and I really haven't heard of any serious issues, except fuel consumption.

The Taurus was really a sad mistake by Ford. That was supposed to be their flagship squad, but it had so many issues - its only redeeming quality was a conpetitive price with the Charger.

When Chrysler finally solved the lousy tension strut and valvetrain issues in the mid-2016 Charger, their reliability soared and operating costs dropped, which is what eventually caused Ford and Chevy to throw in the towel on their police sedans. They were each making sufficient profits from their respective SUV squads, so the minor loss of sales was easily disregarded.

Let's hope the Chrysler Police Advisory Board can convince FCA to get with the program, and get the shifter issues resolved in the squads, and make certain their is enough inventory to be able to produce enough product. The demand is definitely there !!!
 

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Far more important to law enforcement is cost - the Chargers cost less to purchase, less to operate, and bring higher resale.

To clarify the timeline just a bit -

2006 - 2010, LX
2011 - 2021, LD

The changes made to the 2011 LD models completely erased the Daimler remnants from the cars. From that point onward, literally everything (except transmissions) in and on the cars was/is engineered by Chrysler, and produced in North America. The A580, 850RE, and 8HP70 transmissions are, of course, Chrysler adaptations of ZF assemblies.

The Caprice never really caught on. It was quite expensive, had the bizarre console shifter, and used an oddball tire size. It performed well, and I really haven't heard of any serious issues, except fuel consumption.

The Taurus was really a sad mistake by Ford. That was supposed to be their flagship squad, but it had so many issues - its only redeeming quality was a conpetitive price with the Charger.

When Chrysler finally solved the lousy tension strut and valvetrain issues in the mid-2016 Charger, their reliability soared and operating costs dropped, which is what eventually caused Ford and Chevy to throw in the towel on their police sedans. They were each making sufficient profits from their respective SUV squads, so the minor loss of sales was easily disregarded.

Let's hope the Chrysler Police Advisory Board can convince FCA to get with the program, and get the shifter issues resolved in the squads, and make certain their is enough inventory to be able to produce enough product. The demand is definitely there !!!

Valve train issue?? Lifters?
 

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2017 Charger Pursuit AWD
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Valve train issue?? Lifters?
GOOD NEWS - LIFTER PART #'S

5038785AD

5038786AD

These will probably be on back-order forever, but they are saying these parts supercede all previous lifters, 2005 - 2018.

Oddly, they haven't posted the mid-2016+ Pursuit camshaft part #. This is an obvious omission, since they only show the same cam from 2009 on up.

Valvesprings are all over the place (applications), so it doesn't make sense to post those #'s.
 

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GOOD NEWS - LIFTER PART #'S

5038785AD

5038786AD

These will probably be on back-order forever, but they are saying these parts supercede all previous lifters, 2005 - 2018.

Oddly, they haven't posted the mid-2016+ Pursuit camshaft part #. This is an obvious omission, since they only show the same cam from 2009 on up.

Valvesprings are all over the place (applications), so it doesn't make sense to post those #'s.
5.7L Hemi car cam, I'd figure they'd all be the same part number or, at least the newer sticks would be backwards compatible with earlier ones, all other design factors being the same (lifters, etc). As we all know, ANY 2005+ LX/LY/? 5.7L car flat moves out; as in ca 1969 Polara 440 Magnum acceleration numbers, at least before the speed limiter comes into play on the current vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
5.7L Hemi car cam, I'd figure they'd all be the same part number or, at least the newer sticks would be backwards compatible with earlier ones, all other design factors being the same (lifters, etc). As we all know, ANY 2005+ LX/LY/? 5.7L car flat moves out; as in ca 1969 Polara 440 Magnum acceleration numbers, at least before the speed limiter comes into play on the current vehicles.
Well, the older 5.7 (through 2008) wouldn't be able to use the Eagle's VVT cam, and although the new lifters are supposed to supercede all previous 5.7 and 6.4 lifters, that has not been confirmed just yet.

I am awaiting word from Fleet for the new Pursuit cam and valve spring part numbers. These changed in March of 2016. Horsepower was subsequently lowered a tad, from 370 to 363, and the 2020 models are at 360 hp. There was a lot of pressure from the PAB to get the durability up on the cars, and the overwhelming opinion was to trade a little power for a mill that can stand up to the insane abuse these cars get.
 

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360 ponies at the drive wheels, that's still ca 430 HP at the crank, no package car had that kind of power, even in the 1960's. The only outlier I can think of was the 1963-65 Chevy 409-425 option and, the current Charger would probably still outrun it, especially at speeds over 130 MPH.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
360 ponies at the drive wheels, that's still ca 430 HP at the crank, no package car had that kind of power, even in the 1960's. The only outlier I can think of was the 1963-65 Chevy 409-425 option and, the current Charger would probably still outrun it, especially at speeds over 130 MPH.....
The '69 Fury 440 with 2.93 rear was probably the fastest of the Muscle w/Badge rockets, until the Camaro in 1992, and LD Charger in 2011. A lot of folks overlook the big Plymouth, but it did have a slight weight and size advantage over the glorified Polaras, and it also out-sold the big Dodge every single year, at least through '81 - even though the cars were absolutely identical after '73 (B, R, and M bodies). Why the Dippy outsold the Fury from '82 - '89 remains a bizarre mystery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I wish civilans could get the charger without that massive console
Amen to that - what a tremendous waste of space, and also a literal pain in the leg. Just because the space is there, doesn't mean it should be filled up !!!
 

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Amen to that - what a tremendous waste of space, and also a literal pain in the leg. Just because the space is there, doesn't mean it should be filled up !!!
I look forward to reading your posts...keep them coming.....much appreciated.
 

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Amen to that - what a tremendous waste of space, and also a literal pain in the leg. Just because the space is there, doesn't mean it should be filled up !!!
THANK YOU!I I always felt like the lone voice complaning about those consoles. They have made almost every newer car a no deal for me. A old dodge spirit with a split bench seat has more room then a new Impala. The charger and 300 are better then most buts its still to big. I hate the cockpit look.
 

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To clarify the timeline just a bit -

2006 - 2010, LX
2011 - 2021, LD

The changes made to the 2011 LD models completely erased the Daimler remnants from the cars. From that point onward, literally everything (except transmissions) in and on the cars was/is engineered by Chrysler, and produced in North America. The A580, 850RE, and 8HP70 transmissions are, of course, Chrysler adaptations of ZF assemblies.
AKA NAG1 aka W5A580 aka WA580 aka Mercedes 5G-Tronic 722.6. Nope, that's an MB transmission, though it has been rumored that it's a MB copy of a ZF unit.
 

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The fact that Ford and GM literally do not make a police sedan and probably never will again is crazy.
Chrysler was the first to get out of the police sedan game in 1989, but now they are the only ones in it.
Ford got out briefly, 1991 to 1992 or something like that, until they got the restyled "aero" version of the Crown Vic ready for cops.
But for me, the "Shamu" Caprice of the 90s was the absolute pinnacle of police car heaven. For those who are not old enough to remember, after the initial buzz surrounding the new rounded Caprice died down in 1991, the only people who bought them were police departments and old guys who wanted people to get out of their way. There are no cars like that today, that are so completely identified as police cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
AKA NAG1 aka W5A580 aka WA580 aka Mercedes 5G-Tronic 722.6. Nope, that's an MB transmission, though it has been rumored that it's a MB copy of a ZF unit.
The ZF 5HP30 was definitely the basis for the Mercedes assembly, which later became the basis for the Chrysler unit. It must be noted that the assembly used in the LX cars was not, and could not, be identical to the MB trans. The A580, of course, was and is much closer to the original ZF design. Incidentily, the 722.6 had a 2-spd reverse.

"NAG1" was more of a marketing buzzword for the MB-derived assembly. It was used in 2005 and 2006 to try to persuade buyers that this wasn't just another failure-prone transmission. As time went on, they probably could've called it the 580RE, as that would've been much easier to understand, but "A580" had a nice ring to it, and it stuck. The NAG-1, as such, was said to be last used in the LX models to or through 2008. This coincides with the split of Daimler and Chrysler, but the "Chrysler LLC" interim between '08 and the new "FCA" LD models in 2011 leads me to believe they continued to use the old assembly until Kokomo 2 was fired up and ready.

None of this is, however, is of any significant consequence today. Chrysler continues production of the 845/850RE at Kokomo1, and ZF continues to supply the 8HP70/90/95.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I look forward to reading your posts...keep them coming.....much appreciated.
Chasing down ACCURATE info is a real pain, especially with the squads.

It's a whole different world from the retail side, and everyone has their side to things - OEM, Dealer/techs, Fleet Managers, Fleet techs, LEO's, and us mortal enthusiasts.
 

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The ZF 5HP30 was definitely the basis for the Mercedes assembly, which later became the basis for the Chrysler unit. It must be noted that the assembly used in the LX cars was not, and could not, be identical to the MB trans. The A580, of course, was and is much closer to the original ZF design. Incidentily, the 722.6 had a 2-spd reverse.

"NAG1" was more of a marketing buzzword for the MB-derived assembly. It was used in 2005 and 2006 to try to persuade buyers that this wasn't just another failure-prone transmission. As time went on, they probably could've called it the 580RE, as that would've been much easier to understand, but "A580" had a nice ring to it, and it stuck. The NAG-1, as such, was said to be last used in the LX models to or through 2008. This coincides with the split of Daimler and Chrysler, but the "Chrysler LLC" interim between '08 and the new "FCA" LD models in 2011 leads me to believe they continued to use the old assembly until Kokomo 2 was fired up and ready.

None of this is, however, is of any significant consequence today. Chrysler continues production of the 845/850RE at Kokomo1, and ZF continues to supply the 8HP70/90/95.
How much commonality is there between the 722.6 and the A580? Seems like, based on stuff like Sonax and Transgo kits, quite a bit, at least at the valve body and maybe pump level, minus the 2d reverse gear stuff and as a result the actual valve body (at least). Transgo has one Shift Kit SK 722.6-A for all DCX versions of the 722.6, and Sonax has all 722.6/A580 kits on the MB 722.6 page, including Chrysler valve bodies.
 
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