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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry if this question has been asked, I Googled it and surprisingly cant find any discussion out in the lands of the internet.

Besides the obvious, cost and fuel economy, how does the 6-speed compare to the 4-speed?

My '05 Honda Accord is being totaled, so I'm currently car shopping. I'm having a hard time with some of the dealers I've dealt with over the last three days :(

A while ago I've driven a Chrysler 200 rental car, it was the LX I4 with the 4-speed automatic; really like the car except for the powertrain... felt lagging and a bit dogish. It wasn't terribly bad, but my 8-year old Honda's 2.5-liter / 5-speed was much appreciated when I came back home. Does the 6-speed feel more responsive and quicker with the 4-cylinder? Now that I'm carless, I'm asking for initial impressions about what you guys think of the car.

I know I know test drive, and I will but I've been getting the run-around and game playing with dealers. Hopefully I find a fair dealership in the next couple of days. Also, because of my budget I'm buying used, probably 4cylinder - the used 200s with 6-speed autos are overpriced in my are (imho), and there are a bootload of 4-speed autos (rental fleets sent to auction). I'm also considering the Avenger, but I'm honestly not sure how much of a difference the Avenger vs 200 is.

Plus, there where two TSB for the 6-speed automatic, so even if I test drive one what if it hasn't been flashed... it probably wouldn't leave me the best impression.

Yeah, so if you know of a 2012+ 200/Avenger with 6-speed (hopefully they feel more responsive than the 4-speed?) for $13/$14,000 let me know :runaway: :p
 

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Welcome to Allpar. The fuel economy between the 6-speed (62TE) and the 4-speed (41TE) automatic transaxles aren't that much different. The top gear ratios (overdrives) are about the same.
Where the 6-speed really shines is in the flexibility of the 2 extra ratios. The 'granny gear' 1st gear launch give the car a whole different feel with the added torque and closer-ratios over the wider-spaced ratios of the 41TE.
For awhile in 2010 (?) both transaxles were being supplied until fully converted over to the 62TE. The latest flash update followed by a quicklearn make for a strong, smooth-shifting automatic.
A heavier Sebring/Avenger 62TE will probably always be slower than the 2.5L Honda, but feel stronger/quicker than the 41TE.
Used rental car shopping probably gives you the best bang for the buck. Many Auto Auction dealers around here buy up used rental and lease/wholesale vehicles and most are a bargain. The later Calibers aren't bad either if you could live with and enjoy the CVT variable-ratio transaxle.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, that is what I'm wondering... if the 6-speed feels more lively. I guess my plan is to test drive one with a 6-speed auto. Is there a way to find out if the transmission had the two services done? VIN # lookup at the dealership maybe.

Most auctioned off 200/Avengers are the base LX 4-speed, and honestly I wouldn't call theme a bargain. Buying directly from Hertz is a pretty good deal, but they are hard to deal with if you live out of their selling states (I'm currently having trouble with theme). You can get a '12 Avenger SXT (6-speed) from HertzRent2Buy for $13,000.
 

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Don't go with the 4-speed. The 6-speed is awesome. It leaps off the line, shifts rapid-fire up to 4th and pulls well, and is whisper quiet on the highway. It kicks down readily, usually 2 gears, to give plenty of power.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just purchased my Chrysler 200 Touring with the V6 engine. Its sitting outside my hotel window - drove all the way out to Ohio to buy this car! I will be heading back home tomorrow.
 

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Trust me, you will love that engine and tranny combo. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks

Its a 2013 (used) - not a big fan of 1st or 2nd year new car releases, hopfully my '13 has all the "kinks" worked out.

Hoping for long term reliability.
 

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Volpe Mar said:
Just purchased my Chrysler 200 Touring with the V6 engine. Its sitting outside my hotel window - drove all the way out to Ohio to buy this car! I will be heading back home tomorrow.
Nice choice!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I noticed all my door hinges have what appears to be surface rust? Whats a good lubricant for these hinges.
 

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Mine have the same thing, I use marine synthetic bearing greese. It water resistant so it should last while.
 

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I have a 2012 Avenger 2.4 with 22,000 trouble FREE miles on it. I have only one complaint. The MPG is worse with this car than the 2010 I previouly had. The 2010 got me 23 city and 37 highway with a 4 speed transmission. With the 2012; I get about 19-21 around town and highway 28-31 tops.I love the car otherwise.
I am looking into trading it in for a 2013 DART SXT with 1.4T and DC transmission.in hopes to get better mileage.
One thing that I also discovered is the trade in for the 2012 Aventer is awlful. The best I can get is $12,000. I still owe 20K on the car so it puts me upside down, but the dealer feels that if I stay with the Avenger, it will lose value so fast that it will not be worth anything by the time I pay it off.
Anyone else run into this.
 

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Avenger's resale mimics that of it's predecessor (Stratus) in that both were considered "fleet queens" - at the end of their fleet lives they get dumped on the used car market and drive the value down significantly.
 

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You should sit down with a spreadsheet and do the math. I doubt it will pay for you to trade for the Dart based solely on gas mileage. With all due respect, this is a terrible idea in your case. Let's take some sample numbers:

Let's say you get $14K, optomistically, for the Avenger. Now you're 6K in the hole. You buy a new Dart and you pay, let's say, $20K. Now you're $26K in the hole, whereas before you were $6K in the hole. You are in debt by $20,000 more dollars for a car of about the same age and expected longevity.

You now get 31 mpg highway. With the Dart you will get maybe 38 mpg highway. Let's say you drive 18,000 miles a year like I do (more miles makes the payback shorter for gas mileage purposes).

Your gas savings (if you use 87 octane at $3.459 per gallon) will be $279 per year. With $20K debt incurred just to get better gas mileage, it will take 93.2 years to break even. If you use the recommended 91 octane in the Dart at $3.899 per gallon, the payback is 441 years.

I think your Dart will have depreciated long before this, and you and I as well.
 

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Intersesting math. Now first, the car I am told is worth at present 12k.The dealer said if I came in with 4k as a down payment, I would only carry 4K against what I owe on the Avenger.(20K) However, he pointed out that if I keep the Avenger, it would be worth $0 by the time I paid it off (3-5 years). This does not include the extra expenses that come with owning a car for 5 years including tires and non-warrenty repairs,etc. On the other hand if I spend 3k on an extended warrenty, that's 3K that could have been applied to a new car as a down payment.
The dealer also pointed out that if i purchase a 20k Dart it would lower my monthly car payments about $ 83 per month in addition to the reduced gasoline cost because of the better mileage. assuming I go for the 2.0 with the reg 6 speed tranny.

The bottom line is that it is a difficult choice.
 

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I think the dealer is simply trying to sell a Dart and the financing to go along with it.

Using KBB for my area, the current "sell it myself" values on a 2012 Avenger SE with the 2.4/6-speed and no other options (I don't know how yours is optioned) are:
Excellent: $13,435
Very Good: $12,935
Good: $12,535
Fair: $11,235

There is no way that your 2012 Avenger will be worth ZERO in 3-5 years. That's an outright lie.

Looking at a 2008 Avenger SE 2.4/4-speed - a 5 year old car - the values are:
Excellent: $8,862
Very Good: $8,487
Good: $8,237
Fair: $7,237

I'm no math major, but none of those numbers is anywhere close to zero.
 

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BTW, the error in my math is that you would be another $20K in the hole. You would have the equity in the Dart, which of course would drop as soon as the wheels hit the pavement. So let's say you would be $6K in the hole on the trade-in and almost immediately another $4K in the hole with the Dart. Depending on your loan, you could be in a negative equity position the entire time you own the Dart.

With $10K debt instead of $20K, cut those numbers in half. Your payback would be 46 years.

I know people who kept rolling their debt into the next car and the next. On the third vehicle, they lost their home and divorced. Finances can be tough to manage. It's always best to be at least equity-neutral or ahead on a vehicle, since they are always depreciating assets (except the rare collectible). Sometimes the best way to manage this is to buy a good used car and eliminate the car debt as early as possible before buying the next car. Sounds easy, but really, in terms of reliability, a new car doesn't give much over a 3-4 year old car (or older, if maintained). My last 3 cars, I bought used and paid cash. They cost between 25 and 45 cents a mile to own and operate, all costs included. A new car can't come close to that. And I have only broken down 4 times in 35 years and 725,000 miles of driving. With AAA coverage, it's not a concern.

Once again, trading cars for the gas mileage alone will only create more debt. Trading to reduce payments is a good thing, but still plot the amortization of the loan. It may still not get you out of debt earlier.

And I agree, the dealer is flat-out lying when he says the car will be worth zero. Cars that are over 10 years old are still worth $1500 or more if running. I'd walk away and never go back to someone who made that statement to me.
 

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John3rd said:
I have a 2012 Avenger 2.4 with 22,000 trouble FREE miles on it. I have only one complaint. The MPG is worse with this car than the 2010 I previouly had. The 2010 got me 23 city and 37 highway with a 4 speed transmission. With the 2012; I get about 19-21 around town and highway 28-31 tops.I love the car otherwise.
I am looking into trading it in for a 2013 DART SXT with 1.4T and DC transmission.in hopes to get better mileage.
One thing that I also discovered is the trade in for the 2012 Aventer is awlful. The best I can get is $12,000. I still owe 20K on the car so it puts me upside down, but the dealer feels that if I stay with the Avenger, it will lose value so fast that it will not be worth anything by the time I pay it off.
Anyone else run into this.
Have to say I agree with Bob. It's not worth it go deeper into debt just for a few more miles per gallon. As Bob illustrated it'll take a long time to just break even let alone get ahead.

Your 2012 Avenger gets decent fuel mileage. Sure, it's not what you had before, but it's not bad either. Sure beats what I get with my Hemi-powered Ram (17.5 mpg avg - don't get me wrong I love my truck) and my wife's Journey (19-20 mpg avg).

The only real alternative is to keep your Avenger, make more than the minimum payment (as long as there isn't a penalty for doing so) and pay it off quicker. Then save up for a down payment (at least 25% of the purchase price).

Here's what the dealer is telling you - not that it will be worth $0 - but that it won't have any real value to him to offer you in a trade. You need to understand dealer talk.

The real problem is how many auto loans are structured. There are many customers who really can't afford a "new" car, but dealers (with the lenders approval) structure the loan (usually by lengthening the loan) so the month;y payment is "affordable" (assuming the customer qualifies). The result is the car depreciates faster than the loan is paid down. That's how most get "upside" down in their loan-to-car value. Not so long ago, the average car loan was only 4-5 years - 3 on a used car. Now it's not uncommon to see 5-6 and even 7 year notes on new cars and 4-5 on used cars. Then when they want to trade it in for "new" car (usually because they are "tired" of the one they have) they find out the vehicle they have has negative equity.

Yeah, I would love to get a 2014 Ram 1500 diesel when they come out, but I know now it's just not financially feasible for me.
 
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