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I have a 07 PT Limited Turbo with 41TE automatic with 56K miles. I also had a 98 Stratus SE 2.5V6 AutoStick with the same transmission. About two months ago I was looking for a car to putt around town in (my wife drives the PT) after retiring. And after looking around at a ton of junkers (I wanted to spend under 3K) I found a 95 Buick Century Special with 55K miles on it....it was the classic little old ladies car. I really did not want it but it was in virtually perfect condition and it was only $2799 so I bought it......
It has the 3100 V6 (L-82 160HP 185ft-lbs) and the 4C60-E 4sp auto. After driving the Buick for a few months now I am surprised to say I think I like the 4C better. It shifts more firmly than the 41 when under load and more smoothly than the 41 when driving slower. 1-2 shift is much firmer in the GM unit. The 41 just has a longer and slushier shift at most speeds. It is in no way irritating, It just is not as responsive or quick shifting as the GM unit. The PT has had two fluid and filther changes in the trans so far so I know its in good shape. It also shifts just like the one in my Stratus. i was wondering if anyone else has had any experience with the 4C60E. Also as an aside, the owners manual states that unless the car is in severe service, no trans fluid changes are needed in the first 100K, if ever. (it has been done once anyway.) And as we all know, fluid and filther changes are critical to a 41TE's life.
 

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There is a Chrysler TSB # 21-008-08 that addresses upshift/downshift 'bump and harshness' in your PT. It is a PCM/TCM software upgrade that will greatly improve shift quality, 'feel' and response.
The software flash may be covered under your 8/80 extended federal emissions warranty as it is part of the engine PCM. Have them perform a Quicklearn after the flash to complete the service.
Call your dealer for details about extended warranty coverage and an appointment.

http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/59opi-2007-chrysler-pt-cruiser-000-miles-slowing-down-shifting-3rd-gear.html
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I know what a 41TE does when it needs a re flash or a filter and fluid change and like I said in the above post, the trans shifts fine.......there is no up/down shift harshness at all and it shifts fine without slipping. My Stratus had a bit of trans trouble at 110K so I had it flushed and filter changed and it was perfect again. The PT just has a softer shift than the GM unit.....and it is more responsive in the way it does not mind downshifting under light throttle. The Buick HATES to down shift unless the throttle is mashed to the floor. In fairness even though it has extremely looooong gearing (full throttle upshift from 2-3 is at 80MPH) it has enough torque not to need to downshift a lot around town.
The designation for the 4C60-E means it is electronicly controlled but it sure feels like an old school vac modulated trans. The other day my buddy was riding in the car, it was a balmy 95 degree Sacramento day and we had the air on. I took off from a light and needed to get in the next lane to make a turn. I used about 3/4 throttle and when it shifted 1-2 it banged off a shift and peeped the right front tire. He looked at me (he is an old school hot rodder) and asked "does this have a shift kit?" Just like an old THM-400 or C4-6 under low vac conditions; the more load, the firmer the shift. The 41TE shifts pretty much the same all the time, smoothly and quickly (just not a quickly as the GM unit) with none of the old A-604 bugaboos. My point in the post above is and was: i like firmer shifts under load (ok I grew up with shift kit autos, I just like firmer shifts) and the 4C60-E shifts more firmly under load and quicker under light load than the 41TE.
Dont get me wrong, I LOVE our PT...it is quick and responsive, it handles great, smooth on the highway, BA stereo kicks butt and I love how the back seats fold and tumble. The only thing that sucks is the MPG (well known to PT owners). The transmission is fine, I just like the way the GM shifts a little better, and I wondered if anybody had noticed the same thing.

Also the update you talked about is for NA engines...mine is a Turbo like I posted and suffers from none of the problems in the update.
 

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I have an opinion on 4T60E- but first a little background on me, I've got 20+ years of rebuilding GM transmissions, started on the 440T4 (predecessor to the 4T60E) and worked also on 4T65E, the final iteration of the series The truth is, when they work right, they do shift nicely, however, when I started driving my first Chrysler (in my whole life) a few months ago, I was intrigued by the simple little trans it has. trans for trans, I don't think it shifts as smoothly as a GM 4spd transaxle but the GM's have a ton of fail points that prevent many of them from making it to 100k. I made a great living on them because of it. (no more, i'm out of the auto business now). I'd have to give Chrysler the props for a simpler design and better parts interchange between years (based on my 6 hours or so of internet research). Yeah, there are likely plenty of quirks, but information is out there. In short, I know I could fix my PT's trans cheaper than I could fix your 4T60e. I like that. I've become very thrifty as of late, and have learned to appreciate the value of simplicity. Tip: run the fluid about 2" above the full mark on the stick- DexronVI (i'm not kidding! I'd never recommend that with any other trans, it will live longer if you take my advice). Don't try ATF+4 in it, despite being a better fluid, it won't like that at all. Best wishes with your Buick- nice car, but I'm keeping my PT, it' s the best deal I've gotten in a long time- now if I could just get 20mpg.....

KJ4
 

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Discussion Starter #5
kj4 said:
I have an opinion on 4T60E- but first a little background on me, I've got 20+ years of rebuilding GM transmissions, started on the 440T4 (predecessor to the 4T60E) and worked also on 4T65E, the final iteration of the series The truth is, when they work right, they do shift nicely, however, when I started driving my first Chrysler (in my whole life) a few months ago, I was intrigued by the simple little trans it has. trans for trans, I don't think it shifts as smoothly as a GM 4spd transaxle but the GM's have a ton of fail points that prevent many of them from making it to 100k. I made a great living on them because of it. (no more, i'm out of the auto business now). I'd have to give Chrysler the props for a simpler design and better parts interchange between years (based on my 6 hours or so of internet research). Yeah, there are likely plenty of quirks, but information is out there. In short, I know I could fix my PT's trans cheaper than I could fix your 4T60e. I like that. I've become very thrifty as of late, and have learned to appreciate the value of simplicity. Tip: run the fluid about 2" above the full mark on the stick- DexronVI (i'm not kidding! I'd never recommend that with any other trans, it will live longer if you take my advice). Don't try ATF+4 in it, despite being a better fluid, it won't like that at all. Best wishes with your Buick- nice car, but I'm keeping my PT, it' s the best deal I've gotten in a long time- now if I could just get 20mpg.....

KJ4
Thanks! Great info! I love my PT as well and would never get rid of it. it was just an interesting comparison between two transmissions of a similar type. The 41TE turned out to be a fairly reliable unit....after years of horror of the A604 of course. My Buick is just my putt-around car while the wife is at work. As for the MPGs....good luck with that. PTs just suck in that respect I am afraid. I understand that the Turbos like mine would get fairly bad MPGs but it seems that the NA units would be much better...its always been a mystery to me. The very best I have ever got is around 18 in town and 25 on the hwy. Tell us about your PT!
 

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The 2.4 NA is a thirsty engine - average in my Stratus was around 20MPG city, but could hit 33MPG out on the Interstates.

I know of a few folks that installed larger trans fluid coolers and shift kits on their 41TEs in their JA cars - to help prolong their life and firm up the shifts.
 

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A certain lighting expert told me that Dexron 6 is a better fluid than ATF+4 in every way, and he's switched to it for his Mopars. He warned that this was a personal decision and he can't recommend it without knowing the long term consequences, but it seems better in practice.

Most likely Chyrsler will eventually do ATF+5 and leapfrog whatever Dexron is out there ;) it's evolution.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Stratuscaster said:
The 2.4 NA is a thirsty engine - average in my Stratus was around 20MPG city, but could hit 33MPG out on the Interstates.

I know of a few folks that installed larger trans fluid coolers and shift kits on their 41TEs in their JA cars - to help prolong their life and firm up the shifts.
I had no idea that shift kits were avail for 41TEs.hmmmmmm. I noticed that when I was researching the 4C60Es that shift kits were avail but were VERY expensive...evidently it involves a lot more than just installing a new valve body like the old days.......is the 41TE like that as well?
 

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"A certain lighting expert told me that Dexron 6 is a better fluid than ATF+4 in every way"
Yes its true...for a GM tranny designed for dex!
Our beloved ATF+4 is a rather unusual beast among the atf´s if you look at its properties.
It was a part of the ultradrive fix ( mechanic in a bottle ).
Dex6 is a more modern fluid in its own way, basically thinner but it lacks the properties that
makes atf+4 good for mothers trannies.
This is a dangeruos advise.
 

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It isn't about "better", it's about what is compatible and what is not.
There is no more universal ATF, except maybe the generic Dex-Merc for older GM/Ford transmissions. But you had better read the back of the bottle to see what it isn't used for.
Not compatible can lead to a very expensive rebuild.
Mopar/JATCO CVTs only use CVTF+4.
DiamondStars with the Mitsubishi transaxle should use the SP-III.
The new Chrysler 8HP ZF's only use Mopar # 68157995AA.
Modern transaxles don't have a dipstick, but there is a flexible dip tool and temperature chart if you need to check the level. Transmissions don't burn oil, so the only reason the level would likely drop would be from an external fluid leak.
I don't believe in the 'Filled for Life' claim in the owners manual, but I think that the 30K mile transmission service recommended by some dealers is overkill as well. Somewhere in the middle or if you notice a change in transmission shift behavior would be a good time to change the fluid and filter. It also gives you the opportunity to examine the trans pan bottom and magnet. Maintenance requirements will also vary by normal or severe duty.
 

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ImperialCrown said:
It isn't about "better", it's about what is compatible and what is not.
There is no more universal ATF, except maybe the generic Dex-Merc for older GM/Ford transmissions. But you had better read the back of the bottle to see what it isn't used for.
Not compatible can lead to a very expensive rebuild.
Mopar/JATCO CVTs only use CVTF+4.
DiamondStars with the Mitsubishi transaxle should use the SP-III.
The new Chrysler 8HP ZF's only use Mopar # 68157995AA.
Modern transaxles don't have a dipstick, but there is a flexible dip tool and temperature chart if you need to check the level. Transmissions don't burn oil, so the only reason the level would likely drop would be from an external fluid leak.
I don't believe in the 'Filled for Life' claim in the owners manual, but I think that the 30K mile transmission service recommended by some dealers is overkill as well. Somewhere in the middle or if you notice a change in transmission shift behavior would be a good time to change the fluid and filter. It also gives you the opportunity to examine the trans pan bottom and magnet. Maintenance requirements will also vary by normal or severe duty.
DSMs with the Mitsubishi trans can use ATF+4 as Diamond SP-III is equivalent o ATF+3... My owners manual states both are acceptable...
 
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