[mytyeerinpie]

So here is the story http://imgur.com/a/myT64,

I had it posted a couple other places looking for advice so I figured I could just link you all to the original I wrote. Here's a list of parts that came with it.

One Edlebrock Carb 1406
One Holley Carb 80555
Edlebrock Performer intake manifold 3776
Edlebrock Performer-Plus 2177 Cam and lifters

Are any of those worth putting on? I would love to find an original ThermoQuad 800 cfm to put in it, but I have yet to find one that isn't $400 on ebay. I would rather find a cheap dirty one and rebuild it myself. That intake I have is not the Performer RPM model which is what I have heard is the preferred intake manifold to use on the 360.

The Torque converter seems to stall around 2500 RPM, I would like to find a lower stall, 1800-2200 one, but not sure where to look.

My friend and I would like to build this Little 360 up a bit, we want to do a pretty high horsepower Grand Touring style build. The truck is a driver's truck. It feels so good on the road, with the IFS in the front, it handles so well and is incredibly stable even when the tires are broken loose and at high speeds. I have access to a 14 bolt rear end I am thinking about tossing under him just to be sure it can take anything I will throw at it. It currently has a 8.25" under it and I don't think that that will cut it once we get the power increase the way we want it.

If I am better off posting in a different sub-forum for this kind of info, please let me know, I am more than happy to do that if it doesnt belong here. I know it is a "Ford" but trust me its all mopar other than the sheet metal and wooden bed. And maybe steering column, I have no idea where that came from.

Thanks for y'alls time,

Tye

 

[MoparNorm]

Just a word of caution, a 14 bolt is a pig, weighing over 700 lbs!
If you want strength and a decent power to weight ratio, use a Chrysler 9.25, or a Dana 60.
Also the 14 bolt has the huge 8 lug axles and it's not cheap to modify them for a matching bolt pattern.

 

[mytyeerinpie]

Well he has a few Ford 9's also, I might be able to pick up for a good price. I don't know anyone that has any chrysler parts so using what we already have might be our best option. I'll keep my eye out for one popping up on the local craigslist and what not.

Edit: I couldn't find a weight on a Chrysler 9.25 but the Dana weighs 500 lbs, only a few less than the 14 bolt. The Ford 9 is roughly 250 lbs, and modifying it shouldn't be hard. Actually, with the genius of my friends modifying anything isn't really too bad at all. I think we can figure it out if we have to.

I am more worried about the parts I have and what to use them for at the moment.

 

[MoparNorm]

The 9" would be fine, it's a tad stronger than the Dana 44.
The 9" has a 1.313 pinion shaft
The 8.75 has a 1.725 pinion shaft and is actually stronger than the 9"
The 8-3/8" has a 1.625 pinion shaft and is probably fine.
You need to check that rear again and see whether its a 8-3/8" or an 8.75. You might not need to change a thing.

 

[dana44]

As far as the engine parts go, it is a nice low end torque setup, the Holley 650 vacuum secondary is a decent carb, secondary setup is pretty easy, good intake and the cam kit is one step above stock, so that might be a little small, but better than stock, you might look at the RV cam, which is a lift of around .440 vice .420, and is a good torque cam. Intake is fine, Porting the heads just to clean up and match the intake and exhaust gaskets would be a major plus overall. There are several 14 bolt covered rear ends, which one is it? Dana 60 and Dana 44 both have 14 bolt covers. The 8.75 is almost as strong, the 426 Hemi and 440 had them behind an automatic, so they will handle whatever you throw in front of them.

 

[MoparNorm]

Good point, the GM 14 Bolt (which is the ONE that is usually associated with the term "14 Bolt") weighs 780 lbs.
For the record, Dana 44 has 10 bolts, Dana 60 has 12.

 

[dana44]

OOps. And GM has the 10 bolt and 12 bolt rear ends, too, including a 14 bolt Spicer posi used in C bodies early 70s. Yeah, a little more info on that 14 bolt is needed.

 

[mytyeerinpie]

I have been reading that the Performer RPM intake works better than the one I currently have, is it that much of a difference? Or at this point should I use the parts I already have?

My mechanic friend thinks anything less than 800 cfm is kind of starving the motor. In all the research I have been doing most recommendations are for 600-700 cfm carbs. Why did it come with a 800cfm but most builders use so much less? I don't care too much about gas mileage, this is my first build like this and I want it to be pretty ballsy.

I'll take a picture of the rear end and post it up. I think they used a volare as a donor vehicle so I assume the rear end is whatever they had.

 

[MoparNorm]

If you are romping on it and street racing, the 800 is OK, but 650-750 is better for daily driving and cruising.
Big carbs are dumping a lot of fuel that isn't needed if you are port matched, blueprinted and properly cam'ed, with matched intake and headers.
Just dumping fuel and not doing anything else is old school and kind of lazy. Designing it to burn the fuel efficiently and with maximum effectiveness is the key.

 

[dana44]

^ exactly.

If you do some research and can find a maximum CFM calculator you will find you have to turn 7500rpm for a 360 to break the 650cfm requirement.

I just read your Bubba story and information you have. Leave the truck alone, 1955 was an excellent year, and the LIttle Red Express 360 under the hood doesn't need any alterations.

Now, to help you out a little bit, the
79 Volare front end under Bubba is a subframe that has been grafted onto the 55 frame. It was a good and very common front end swap, Bubba would have had a straight axle and kingpins, not A arms and torsion bars, it is actually better than the Mustang or Nova swap by far.

After reading your story and being a Retired Navy person myself, between you and me, your father-in-law would come back from the grave and stick that shotgun where you said if you harm what you have inherited, pure and simple. Enjoy what you have inherited, treat Bubba with care and drive her to death. At the same time, if you are talking about another vehicle and all that, which I don't think you are given the LRE reference, please let us know. At most she may need a tune-up, not torn apart.

 

[mytyeerinpie]

Ok. I get it. So the stock Thermoquad was the way of making it seem powerful without doin a whole lot of work. I am currently trying to sell the cam and intake I have to get a different one, it is looking like this is the right course of action. The holley is better to run than that edlebrock that is currently on it then? Would putting that intake I have on make a difference? Or do I need to wait until I cam it?

Sorry for all the questions. I am a Toyota guy most of the time, and I know just about everything about Toyota from the 80s that you all know about these mopars.

 

[dana44]

My question to you right now is, what is wrong with the way the truck runs right now that you want to change things? I read about Bubba and everything and from your description, it is one hel! of an awesome truck, along with the history your father-in-law did with it.

 

[mytyeerinpie]

I know he bought all those parts to out on it. He wanted it to be a hot rod and I would love to fulfill that. I have the ability mechanically, but I also have the internet and I can research what is the best set up instead of just trying out where parts they have for it. I know he wasn't done with it, and I would love to finish it. I don't plan to do any of this soon. I plan to drive it as is for a while before I make any changes. just trying to find out now what to do to source parts etc.

 

[dana44]

With what you have, yes, the Edelbrock, the intake and the cam set will give you a little more power and complete the truck, no need to get anything more potent for it. Now, to take it up one notch without spending more than what you have, or hunt for new parts, is the intake manifold the one that has smaller primary holes or opening and the secondaries larger?

Now the reason I am asking is because there is a square bore intake manifold and a spreadbore manifold, and the carb you have on the LRE right now is 800cfm, the primaries are small and the secondaries are LARGE, but they are vacuum operated, meaning, it is a very good carburetor, just rebuild it to freshen it up and bolt it to the spreadbore manifold and you will not have any tuning problems at all, very simple, you get your 800cfm and I don't have a problem using it because it is a "demand of need" carb and an easy carb to rebuild, hard to break them carburetor. Do not touch the black phenolic floats with your bare fingers, they can become damaged and the oils in your fingers can make the floats sink over time.

The cam itself is probably as listed just a hair above stock, but you might want to, since you mentioned it, step up to something in the .441-.455lift with a duration of 270-275 max (low compression messes with cams larger than this, so don't want to throw in new pistons for no reason at all).

 

[MoparNorm]

The holley is better to run than that edlebrock that is currently on it then? Would putting that intake I have on make a difference? Or do I need to wait until I cam it?
.

Depends upon the definition of "better"
Holleys' can do a lot, but are temperamental and require a fair amount of tuning and jetting to get just right.
Eldelbrock, is a remake of the old Carter AFB and they are fairly workable right out of the box.
CAUTION: Carb-Intake-cam should be designed and installed as a matching unit, not as three stand alone components and that unit includes headers.

 

[dana44]

I am trying to make the swap for you as simple as possible so as not to complex the job (basically). Every company wants to say this, which is probably why your father-in-law picked such a small cam, it is close to the hipo 340 cam, a good swap into a rather stock 360, not too much for a better flowing stock intake and carb setup overall. The intake is a better flowing stock intake design, a little bit smoother on the runners in comparison to stock, so an improvement over stock without being radical. With this, a freshening of the stock carb should bolt right on and run just fine, give you an extra 30-45hp as a combination, and be very well suited to what else is stock. Since I take it the truck is dual exhaust, I wouldn't spend or waste the money on headers, they aren't worth the effort on the street, honestly, you aren't racing the truck, just driving and enjoying it, and the extra heat under the hood isn't necessary. We can do a tune on the distributor advance curve to get a little more out of it later if you want.

 

[MoparNorm]

To add to that, Im not sure the truck needs to be touched, beyond the items Dana mentioned. It's likely VERY drive able as is.
I would say however that there is a value for headers on the street when it comes to fuel economy and torque, however not just any set of headers.

 

[mytyeerinpie]

With what you have, yes, the Edelbrock, the intake and the cam set will give you a little more power and complete the truck, no need to get anything more potent for it. Now, to take it up one notch without spending more than what you have, or hunt for new parts, is the intake manifold the one that has smaller primary holes or opening and the secondaries larger?

Now the reason I am asking is because there is a square bore intake manifold and a spreadbore manifold, and the carb you have on the LRE right now is 800cfm, the primaries are small and the secondaries are LARGE, but they are vacuum operated, meaning, it is a very good carburetor, just rebuild it to freshen it up and bolt it to the spreadbore manifold and you will not have any tuning problems at all, very simple, you get your 800cfm and I don't have a problem using it because it is a "demand of need" carb and an easy carb to rebuild, hard to break them carburetor. Do not touch the black phenolic floats with your bare fingers, they can become damaged and the oils in your fingers can make the floats sink over time.

The cam itself is probably as listed just a hair above stock, but you might want to, since you mentioned it, step up to something in the .441-.455lift with a duration of 270-275 max (low compression messes with cams larger than this, so don't want to throw in new pistons for no reason at all).

The intake is square bore I believe to match the carb that is on the 360 now, the Edlebrock 1406. I should have been more clear on that. The Thermoquad is MIA, or it would be rebuilt and installed already. I'll look for a cam with the specs you listed. Isn't the stock cam a '68 340 cam? .429-.444 lift duration 268-276? Almost the same as what you said, as long as that is still in it. I found some empty boxes in my father-in-law's garage for cams, for 318-360s so I don't know if he already did one or not. I would guess not, since the stock intake still resides on top of the motor.

Depends upon the definition of "better"
Holleys' can do a lot, but are temperamental and require a fair amount of tuning and jetting to get just right.
Eldelbrock, is a remake of the old Carter AFB and they are fairly workable right out of the box.
CAUTION: Carb-Intake-cam should be designed and installed as a matching unit, not as three stand alone components and that unit includes headers.

I realize the carb-intake-cam combo should all relate and work with each other, and I am thinking that is why he bought the parts that he did, they are all brand new in the box, never even opened the cam/lifter box. The cam is .420-.420, 270-270 duration, so that almost fits where dana44 was saying but the lift is off.

I am trying to make the swap for you as simple as possible so as not to complex the job (basically). Every company wants to say this, which is probably why your father-in-law picked such a small cam, it is close to the hipo 340 cam, a good swap into a rather stock 360, not too much for a better flowing stock intake and carb setup overall. The intake is a better flowing stock intake design, a little bit smoother on the runners in comparison to stock, so an improvement over stock without being radical. With this, a freshening of the stock carb should bolt right on and run just fine, give you an extra 30-45hp as a combination, and be very well suited to what else is stock. Since I take it the truck is dual exhaust, I wouldn't spend or waste the money on headers, they aren't worth the effort on the street, honestly, you aren't racing the truck, just driving and enjoying it, and the extra heat under the hood isn't necessary. We can do a tune on the distributor advance curve to get a little more out of it later if you want.

I see now, just a little upgrade, or freshening of parts is what the parts I have are. A little newer technology but basically the same parts. That totally makes sense.

I wish I had the stock carb, everyone seems to recommend it. I have looked around but they seem pricey, and I would rather find an old used one that I could just rebuild myself.

I hadn't found in all the hours of researching that I have done anyone who recommends headers to anyone for this motor. I thought this was strange since it is always the first thing we do on Toyota's along with an intake. Adds 30 hp with minimal effort. Most recommendations I read for the 360 said to port match the heads to the stock exhaust manifold and they get the best results.


Well thank you all for the help by the way, it's nice to actually have someone(s) to answer all the questions I have after all the reading and researching I have done.

 

[dana44]

This would have had the thermoquad spreadbore carb on it, and I know where one is located in my garage come to think of it, pretty sure it is the one you are thinking of, black phenolic body, aluminum top, the whole nine yards. Anyway, if you have the square bore carb on it now, the manifold isn't stock unless there is an adapter under it.

As far as headers go, remember, this engine is already dual exhaust, Toyota has the gain because they have 1.75 inch exhaust pipes to start with. There is a lot of magic that can be had with ported heads, something I believe in and have been doing for 33 years (man, I am getting old). You don't want to go to that expense unless you were going to be rebuilding the engines, have yet to have one not blow rings out in about 25,000 miles, just an old engine technology thing and rings problem, they usually don't last with redone heads, so hold off on that for now. As far as the cam you have and what you have in the box, that you would have to measure with a dial indicator on the rocker at the valve tip to verify, the other on a lathe and check the lift on it, multiply by 1.5 (rocker ratio).

 

[MoparNorm]

As far as headers go, remember, this engine is already dual exhaust, .

As a designer, builder and distributor of headers, I'd like to say that headers are much, much, more than dual exhausts.
Headers are an integral part of the tuning and performance. They are the finishing touch for your desired rpm, or torque range.
Just as there is a lot of magic in ported heads, there is just as much magic in getting that flow further away from the ports and taking advantage of the scavenging effect and back pressure.