[pSun]

Help! I was driving and she died, has gas, the engine cranks but much weaker than normal (my battery may be at the end; but that won't make it die).
Just replace cap/rotor 1 week ago, I had notice my wires seemed a bit worn and planned to replace them.

This is what it is like when I have a clogged fuel filter but seems diferent than when I had the dead hall effect sensor.

I added fuel, am changing the wires...next is the fuel filter and last on my current list is the hall effect sensor.

Any thoughts welcome.

 

[pSun]

I forgot to mention it is showing code 55 from the KOEF (key on engine off?).

 

[pSun]

Here is what I have done so far:

Added fuel, swapped the spark plug wires, installed a new hall effect unit, new fuel filter...will not start.

Put the battery on my charger diagnostic system; it was not at full charge.

I swapped in an extra coil just in case, it was cold, dark and late so after putting charging system on I changed out the coils and will test it in the morning (giving it the evening to charge).

When I try to start the engine, I don't hear the fuel system spool up and it sounds very abnormal, almost like the starter may not be engaging the flywheel? I hope it isn't the fuel pump but have not changed the starter in one of these yet either, so I am unpleased with either result as I have read of some of the complexities regarding replacing these fuel pumps and stadters are sometimes real tuff.

 

[valiant67]

If it sounds odd when cranking you may have broken the timing belt.

 

[Dave Z]

Good point. Every time my Spirit R/T went thorugh a timing belt, it stripped the teeth off it. No damage -- four timing belts.

 

[B10alia]

+1 on the timing belt

 

[John Wood]

If you suspect the fuel pump, spray some starter fluid or pour 1/2 cup of gasoline down the throttle body. If it tries to start, it is likely the fuel pump.

Check your timing belt by removing the distributor cap. Note the position of the rotor. Crank the engine. If the rotor did not move, the timing belt is likely broke or has teeth sheared off.

 

[chuzz]

+2 on the timing belt. That's exactly what happened to my 94 Acclaim.

 

[pSun]

Thanks to forum members good thinking and suggestions, I looked at the timing belt 1st. There are piles of chewed up belt on the cam pulley and any other horizontal surface within the area. Several visible belt teeth are hanging on by a thread!

I hope no damage to the top end has occured???!???

From what I have read, when the belt goes the top and bottom become independant. My belt definitely slipped some teeth and I certainly cranked it over 10 or so (short) times while troubleshooting. WHAT KIND DAMAGE to the rest of the engine SHOULD I EXPECT?

 

[valiant67]

That is a non-interference engine. The valves and pistons won't make contact. All you need to do is replace the belt.

 

[Doug D]

WHAT KIND DAMAGE to the rest of the engine SHOULD I EXPECT?

NONE!

As Mark (Valiant67) posted these are non-interference engines and no damage occurs if the belt breaks. Simply install a new one, reset the timing and away you go. Figure about ~$300 if you take it to a shop.

 

[pSun]

I almost have it apart, I had a replacement timing belt for the Daytona that I can use. My only concern is that the belt didn't break, it slipped. As I was getting to the splash guard I found 2 sheared teeth.

Thanks for all the help! I will post the results upon completion.

 

[valiant67]

Sometimes it does just shear teeth off rather than breaking. On my brother's 2.5 LeBaron, the belt snapped the first time then the next time it sheared teeth off. The first belt lasted 100k, the second only 15k so there was an installation issue which I suspect was a problem with the belt tension.

 

[chuzz]

Mine sheared off about twenty teeth. It wasn't too bad a job to do.

 

[B10alia]

Might want to get a tensioner while you're at it, just to be safe. They're about $30.

 

[pSun]

Today I learned that Turbo cams have square teeth in the cam gear and presumably the crank gear since the timing belt for a turbo (MFI) has square teeth, vs. The rounded, more closely spaced teeth for a SFI.

My tensioner looks pretty good but the bearings are showing some age. I am seriously considering putting on a new tensioner for good measure.

While searching for parts I found the crank underdrive pulley for a reasonable cost. I have read several claims of 2 mpg; I will happily plunk down the $90 if I can realise 2 mpg. Has anyone else substantiated a modest mpg gain from an underdrive pulley?

By the way this Sundance has the 2.5 liter non-turbo (SFI), runs well (prior to this belt problem, 26/31mpg), with Mobile 1, Mobile 1- PH8A oil filter, MSD blaster, Taylor 8.2's, a K+N and a Dynomax cat-back.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

The square vs round teeth is not a turbo/non-turbo issue, it's vintage. Square was used about 1984-1988 or so, then the switch to rounded.

I would not do underdrive pulleys, because the alternator and water pump will spin more slowly, providing less cooling and battery charge. Unless you do all long highway drives, the battery will gradually suffer for it, and lights will be dimmer at idle.

 

[pSun]

Heh Bob, thank you for the reply. This car is primarily being used by my daughter; she drives 17 miles to school on the highway and then back, so approximently 70% highway. Your points on cooling and charging are serious topics to consider. I feel that because she drives more highway time than urban it will at least be a lesser effect. Regarding the ability to cool (while this is almost never something I subscrbe to doing), I am tolerant to the reduced cooing ability do to: 1) we live in a predominantly cool environment and 2) this particulr engine runs a bit on the cooler side (probably do the heating system being bypassed, so the coolant is in a smaller loop.

Again, those are both serious matters, I am willing to find out though, since my quest for mpg remains unsatified. If I had the part today I would put it on, I don't, so I will fix the belt and see if anything else is wrong.

Thanks for clearing my information regarding thr square/round toothed belts. The Daytona is an 87 and the Sundance is a 90, so that now make comlpete sense.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

I've experimented with MANY ways to increase gas mileage over the last 34 years. I can tell you in order what will give you the biggest gains:

1) Feather foot on the gas.
2) Warm up as fast as possible (that means start driving slowly within 15 seconds of a cold start, instead of idling). Your gas mileage during the time when engine is cold is 50% less.
3) Run tire pressure at 35 if tire is rated for 35, run it at 37 if rated for 44. Don't allow it to get low by more than a pound or two.
4) Keep car in perfect tune, and tune it more often than the book says.
5) Carry as little weight in the car as possible.

By doing this, I raised one car from 17 to 21 mpg, another from 18 to 22 mpg. No other gimmicks. These are the cheap/free gains.

 

[pSun]

I installed the belt but it wouldn't start: when it cranked it was mostly "normal" sounding; my neighbor came over and suggested that the timing sounded off. I thought about it and realized I may have the crank 180 out. I had changed the fuel filter so I thought I would try and splash a bit of fuel into the T/B. NO GO.

So I unbuttoned everything and reset the timing after one full clockwise revolution of the crank. This time I left the accessories off, I may just as well have it run first. It sounded better cranking but would not start. I rechecked that the timing was correct, looked perfect. I decided to take a look under the valve cover, maybe something painfully obvious had taken place. Darkness had set well in the driveway and the chill of night was taking it grip. I stowed my gear and called it.

The only thing I did notice that struck me as odd, is the position of the rotor in the distributor when setting the timing; it seemed, "perhaps", too far forward from the #1 plug terminal. This makes me think I could possibly be forward one tooth on the secondary pulley. This is the first time I have set timing on one engines but I did follow the book; I lined the center line of the secondary pulley with the center line of the crank pulley with a strait edge, then verified that the strait edge went through both prospective pulley marks and that the came was correctly positioned.