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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all, I am new to this forum, however the website is familiar to me with the guides on the 41Te transmission.

At the beginning of August, I purchased a 1995 Chrysler Cirrus from a dealer with 93,000 miles on it. After purchasing, it needed new brakes, and a master cylinder. I also paid to have the AC flushed and the receiver/dryer replaced. Fixed those and it wouldn't quit going into limp mode two days after purchase. The dealer I bought it from told me to shove off in nice terms. After two weeks at the Chrysler dealer under diagnosis through what they described as "home-made and hot wiring" on the engine bay wiring harnesses, it needed a new TCM. The car has worked flawlessly ever since. I love my Cirrus. Well, today I was doing a routine fluids check when I noticed something on the throttle. It turns out, the car cannot idle unless there is small cardboard peices between the throttle stop and the screw, and previous owners JB welded these small peices of cardboard strips in there and bottomed out the idle screw to keep the car running. If I remove them, the car cannot keep idle. I do know that the IAC works because the boost works with changes of engine load (AC, alternator loads, power steering). Idle RPM's are about 500 in gear. If you turn the steering wheel at low speeds, like while backing up, it makes the car ALMOST die, but the idle boost makes it jump back up with a few second delay. I also have an issue with the fuel light coming on and the fuel gague dropping to empty, I have heard this can be a computer issue as with the idle issue. Is the computer not working right and not keeping the engine idling? How can I test this theory? Any suggestions would be helpful, thanks in advance.

Additional information: When I had the AC worked on, I asked the mechanic to pull codes since he had a DRB III scanner. He got code 33 (AC pressure too high), 41 (L/R Solenoid Circuit Failure) that was recognized and fixed by the dealer with the new TCM, and code 51 (O2 sensor read lean condition). This car has the 2.5 L Mistubishi V6.
 

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Welcome to Allpar. There were EGR valve issues on some of these vehicles where te EGR would stay on and cause hard starts, rough idle and stalling. Google chrysler tsb # 18-020-01. If the intake manifold gets hot to the touch after a few minutes of starting and idling from cold, the EGR is dumping exhaust into it and that may be your problem. Even with the vacuum hose removed from the EGR transducer diaphragm, if the pintle valve is remaining open it will continue to allow exhaust to pass.
A service manual with wiring diagrams may be your best friend in determining why and what someone added wiring to in the engine compartment for. You may have to undo what someone did to find the root cause.
The 1995 JA body is an OBD II vehicle, so you should have the underdash plug for a generic scan tool. If you have access to a generic scan tool this can ease diagnosis by watching target idle/actual idle, IAC steps and O2 voltages, etc.
Obviously someone was trying to raise idle speed. The PCM controls idle speed through the IAC. The 'minimum air' adjustment screw on the throttle body is not an idle speed adjustment screw and should never be tampered with. It needs to be set back to where it was, the cardboard shims removed and the real problem found.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your reply, and I agree. So, on the EGR, is there away to unstick this said pintle, or is it sealed and is replacement based repair? I will do the intake method check when I haven't driven the car and it is cold. I checked for codes last night using the MIL light method and I got code 12 (probably from when the dealer replaced the TCM and took off the battery) 33 for the AC, and code 51 for the o2 sensors then end of readout. I didn't think I could use a generic scanner, I've read lots on needing a DRB3 since it wasn't a true OBD2. But I will give it a shot, using a generic scanner for live readout would give me a much more tolerable diagnostic experience. I plan on purchasing diagnostics manuals in the future from eBay, since there are tons of used manuals from closed down dealers.

Another question. How do you tighten the power steering pulley? It squealed this morning (like a sliping belt) and the power steering pulsed until the belt warmed up and stopped squealing under load. It looks really well tucked in there by yhe firewall and I would prefer not to rip my car apart to just tighten a belt.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
With the extra wiring, the dealer said it easy much to worry about. Upon closer look, it looks like someone cut the circuit then reconnected it using larger wire. One (orange colored) goes from the TCM wiring harmess into the upper area by the IAC but i am not all the way sure where exactly, and a blue wire going from the TCM to the transmission solenoid pack. Maybe they shorted out? I agree, and will be getting those manuals soon.
 

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The p/s pump is easier to adjust from underneath with the right side splash shield and wheel removed. Use safe jacking and support practices.
There are 2 13mm(?) pump bracket hold-down bolts to loosen. You can probably leave the top pump pivot bolt alone.
I have found the EGR pintle end missing (burnt off?) on some EGR valves, but outside the stem still moved in and out. It was full EGR all the time. If you can blow through it with no vacuum to it, it's shot. Diagnose first.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Okay. I'll go test the EGR valve and get back to you. Thanks for the info on the pump. That's a project for another day. Is it safe to lift the front of the vehicle using the bar that runs along the center of the motor front to back? Can't see anywhere else that I can lift up on, but I don't wanna damage the motor mount.
 

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It may be safer to lift on the Rt. frame rail behind the K-frame (crossmember) under the RF door as long as structural rust isn't a problem. Use a jackstand.
Once a front wheel leaves the ground, Park won't hold the vehicle any more. Set the parking brake and chock the rear wheels to keep the vehicle stable while underneath.
Safe jacking points should be shown in your owners manual.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah, I always use wheel chocks because I have had e-brakes that don't work well and also have 4 jack stands that I use often, I don't feel safe under a car without them, and I wouldn't be safe. I should just replace the belt since they're so cheap, and I won't have to worry about it for a while.

I tried looking in the manual, and nothing. It didn't describe where to place a jack stand, or even to use the stock jack to lift the car, though those pinch points were obvious. I just had no clue where to safely life the whole front. I called Chrysler's service department and that was not helpful. Thanks for telling me, looks like a good place to lift!

EGR works. Hooked a vacuum gauge to the vacuum line on top of it and could see the pintle and diaphragm both moving through the holes on it. Apparently you can see inside of mine. Lucky me. I then started the engine and applied vacuum and it stumbled to a stop. Vacuum held on the diaphragm, so the EGR system works. It was very difficult to start the car up after that, I couldn't see why. But it took 15 or so seconds of cranking total, it usually takes 1 or 2. It looks like the EGR system has been replaced recently too. The control solenoid to control the vacuum to the vacuum lines, EGR, passage tubes, and connections all looked new. Looks like I am following the path another person took trying to fix this or another issue in the past.
 

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If applying vacuum to the EGR made the car stall, I would have to say that the EGR is working as it should. The hard restart was from all the exhaust in the intake that had to get purged.
Keep diagnosing. How do the spark plug tips look? Black may indicate rich. The fault code 51 may be the O2 sensors trying to drive it lean.
Although the PCM gets fuel level information, the fuel level signal doesn't go through it to get to the dash gauge. It may be a tank sender issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'll guess that the fuel level thing is unrelated then and will plan on dropping the tank and replacing the fuel pump assembly, since the sender and pump are all one unit. It only seems to so it when it's all the way full alway. Below half and it goes away.

Checked the spark plugs a few weeks ago. They were classified as normal wear. They had white on them, but weren't powdery. Comparing to another car's without problems, they looked a little whiter. Taking it on a trip to Vegas in three weeks. If I can't see the problem then, I'll have to place the cardboard back so it'll idle.
 

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Congratulations on Purchasing a Cloud, New Fellow Cloud Owner! allow me to give you a helping hand in a few aspects:



The Jacking and Hoisting Locations for the JA Platform (this picture came from a 1997 Digital Factory Service Manual, but its all the same from 1995-2000)

and on that Fuel Gauge Twitch you have: I had it happen to me, and it was a Warning sign that the Fuel Pump was about to DIE (and mine DID die, with a Full Tank of Gas too!). so get that pump changed ASAP!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you so much for that info! I guess there's no way to lift the front of the car with a floor jack all at once, so I guess I need to do I one side at a time. My suspension is making a popping sound when I go over the smallest bumps now that it didn't make before after jacking it up. Sigh.

I'll replace that fuel pump soon. Where can I find the procedure to do that? I don't have service manuals yet and I don't trust Haynes or any other aftermarket manual.

Thank you, I love my Cloud car! It just feels... Right to drive. I had a 1989 Honda Accord 4 DR LX with a carbureted inline 4 for the past 3 years before I got this. As you can imagine, I am ecstatic that this has fuel injection, an OBD II diagnostics computer, 134a refrigerant, and a V6! I'm satisfied, my friends. To be honest, the thought of limp mode home happensing scares me every now and then, so I cross my fingers and hope it doesn't happen again with frequent fluid and filter changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Uh, guys? New problem to add to this list. What causes the tachometer to intermittently stop working? It started it not working on and off today. It comes back on suddenly. Then turns off. Gah!
 

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http://www.allpar.com/fix/electrical/stratus-gauge-cluster-fix.html

if your Handy with a Soldering Iron, the Link I've Provided shows you exactly where and how to fix that Tach Problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
http://www.allpar.com/fix/electrical/stratus-gauge-cluster-fix.html

if your Handy with a Soldering Iron, the Link I've Provided shows you exactly where and how to fix that Tach Problem.
Yeah, I'm soldering certified, though sometimes that doesn't even help depending on the situation. I can be sure it's the cluster itself though? I guess if I don't see any bad joints or burned electronics, it's a bridge to cross if that happens. Thanks!
 

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There are a couple causes. First is the solder joints as pointed out. A very common failure point.
The second would be a problem with the signal coming to the cluster. The tach signal originates with the crank position sensor. They can fail and cause the tach to drop but you'd also notice the engine cut out. So it's probably not the crank sensor itself or the wiring from the crank sensor to the computer. But there could be a problem in the wiring from the computer to the cluster in the tach circuit. That will be harder to track.
Start with the cluster, the odds are the problem is there.
 

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There are a couple causes. First is the solder joints as pointed out. A very common failure point.
The second would be a problem with the signal coming to the cluster. The tach signal originates with the crank position sensor. They can fail and cause the tach to drop but you'd also notice the engine cut out. So it's probably not the crank sensor itself or the wiring from the crank sensor to the computer. But there could be a problem in the wiring from the computer to the cluster in the tach circuit. That will be harder to track.
Start with the cluster, the odds are the problem is there.
and Building on that, the Early 2.5L Distributors also were prone to failure.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hmmm. Well. The engine doesn't cut out, and runs very smoothly. I don't know if there is a way to test the distributor that its on its way out, it's probably one of those things that give no signs. I am sure it's been replaced in the past though. Many things have. Thanks guys!
 
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