[Bob Lincoln]

If there is no fuel pump prime when you turn the key to ON, when crank and cam sensors are not involved, then either the fuel pump relay isn't closing or the fuel pump is dead. The latter is more likely if it's original.

 

[alien_bug]

If there is no fuel pump prime when you turn the key to ON, when crank and cam sensors are not involved, then either the fuel pump relay isn't closing or the fuel pump is dead. The latter is more likely if it's original.

Thank you Bob. Woldn't it as least fire with the starting fliud even if the pump was dead?

 

[John Wood]

Ran fine. Parked for 3 days. Went out to start it and it turns over but no start. If I spray with starting fliud, there's a little bit of firing, like 1 cylinder almost trying, poorly, but it's really breif then it dies qiuckly, nothing like a normal short run on starting fliud.



Switched Relays around
Checked all fuses with meter to be sure.
I don't hear [background=transparent]fuel[/size][/background]

pump prime. No fuel pressure at rail. No voltage to the pump with key on.
No codes.
Replaced Crank Sensor and cam sensor
5v to throttle body, 8v to camshaft sensor plugs
Jumped the duty side of the ASD relay and nothing happened
I have 12v at the relay socket for the asd and TCM.
unplugged battery to clear but no change

Any help greatly appreciatted.

If you can jump the "duty" side of the fuel pump relay, the pump should run and if it doesn't, you might as well verify that power is at the connector. With power and the pump not running, you can assume a bad pump.

 

[David Eidell]

I've had some pretty weird experiences testing with ether. I do not trust it anymore to tell me an engine isn't getting fuel*. Start with common sense basics. The engine needs a fuel supply whether you're spraying ether down the venturi or not. Get fuel pressure to the rail, then see what happens.

*Here's one from 1973. Brought-to-me 1951 Willys F4-134 engine. Would not start. Had spark, compression, yadda, Sprayed enough ether to almost put me to sleep. Not a peep out of the engine, not even with a 12-volt over ride of the 6 volt system. Put hand over carburetor, simulating a choke. Engine started instantly. Never found out why old owner had removed the choke plate. How much ether did I try? I can's worth. That's a lot of ether. Not so much as a blip. Put hand over carburetor after 1/2 hour of trying, instantaneous start up. This is part of the stuff one learns in one's lifetime about stuff that is supposed to work versus reality.

 

[alien_bug]

I jumped the pump at the conector under the rear seat with a battery charger and the pump ran fine. I disconected pump from the batt charger and the car started and ran for a few seconds with the little bit of pressure the pump built up from testing it. (did it twice)

There is no voltage at the fuel pump relay, so I can not jump it there.

I tried using another key in case it was the security.

Does a bad crank sensor shut off fuel and spark? I replaced it, but maybe I got a bad new one?

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Again, crank and cam sensors don't shut off the ASD relay until about 2 seconds after they detect that the engine is not running. So you should hear the fuel pump prime for about 2 seconds if you turn the key to ON and not to START.

 

[John Wood]

I jumped the pump at the conector under the rear seat with a battery charger and the pump ran fine. I disconected pump from the batt charger and the car started and ran for a few seconds with the little bit of pressure the pump built up from testing it. (did it twice)

There is no voltage at the fuel pump relay, so I can not jump it there.

I tried using another key in case it was the security.

Does a bad crank sensor shut off fuel and spark? I replaced it, but maybe I got a bad new one?

Double check that there is not a blown fuse to the fuel pump relay socket (I know you said you checked). You should have power on at least 1 of the sockets in the fuel pump relay receptical. Check it with the key in the run position. It sounds like the pump is OK, but power is not being passed through the relay from the source side to the load side. Apparently there is no 12 V at the source side. You could also try bypassing the ASD relay before checking voltages on the fuel pump relay since they work together. Since your engine will run for a couple of seconds, you can probably rule out the crank and cam sensors as Bob says.
I suppose there could be an issue with a security/anti-theft system. Perhaps running a 12 volt jumper to the source side of the relay for a test might help, or just for a test, run a jumper to the load side to make the pump run and then see if the car will start and run continuously. Normally a security system malfunction will let the engine run for 2-4 seconds and then cut power to the fuel pump or ASD relay if the anti-theft is armed and not deactivated.

 

[alien_bug]

I have voltage at the source side on the fuel pump relay. Same with the ASD. I have voltage at the fuse for the fuel pump. I tried jumping fuel relay and no pump. Tried jumping fuse too, no pump. I'm assuming source means power supply and load side means to pump side.

I ran 12v from the battery charger from the plug under the rear seat with + hooked to green and - hooked to black and it made it all the way up to the relay #87 socket.

Gotta take a break with working on it Wednesday. I crushed my neck a couple weeks ago and all this crawling around the car has made it a bit worse.

Any ideas on the fix, please advise.

Many Thanks,

 

[John Wood]

I have voltage at the source side on the fuel pump relay. Same with the ASD. I have voltage at the fuse for the fuel pump. I tried jumping fuel relay and no pump. Tried jumping fuse too, no pump. I'm assuming source means power supply and load side means to pump side.

I ran 12v from the battery charger from the plug under the rear seat with + hooked to green and - hooked to black and it made it all the way up to the relay #87 socket.

Gotta take a break with working on it Wednesday. I crushed my neck a couple weeks ago and all this crawling around the car has made it a bit worse.

Any ideas on the fix, please advise.

Many Thanks,

My interpretation of all this is that you have continuity from the load side of the relay to the fuel pump connector/socket. If I understand correctly, you bypassed the the fuel pump relay (providing power to the pump connector) and the pump doesn't come on. We know the pump works because you wired it to 12 volts directly. Therefore the only thing left is a bad return (or ground) from the pump connector. There may be an inline connector in the harness with a bad connection, or a broken ground wire some place (even at the pump connector). Inspect for any dirty, discolored, or burnt contacts.

As a further test, you could bypass the fuel pump relay (providing 12 volts to the pump), try wiggling or moving the pump connector, and checking to see if it starts, even for a moment, which could help determine the location of the bad connection.

 

[alien_bug]

Soooo Today..

I can't help but mess with the car eventhough I shouldn't be. I tried running a new ground to test, no luck. Hooked up original wiring harness again.

-----> Then I jumped the fuel pump relay one more time AND the pump came on, the car started, I quickly shoved in the relay and it stays running and starts normal.

I don't get it, maybe it just needed some inspiration after replacing the cam/crank sensors...

Thanks to everyone !!!