[mopar56]

as mentioned earlier my son and I installed a a833od in his 80 2wd truck, we filled it with dextron as it would have come with from the factory, I also have an older a833 from a cuda, non od,(basicly the same trans), and it came from the factory with 90w gear lube, has anyone ever tried running a different type of fluid in a a833od like say the 90w or synthetic like in the Dakota 5spds, there is not a specific problem here although in a bit of a dumb mistake on my part after removing the side cover for inspection prior to installation I failed to use any rtv over the gasket around the cover,(even though I replaced all the other seals)so we now have a small leak that we have been un-sucessfull in stopping using rtv externally around the cover so I thought maybe a different type of fluid may help here as I have NO intention of removing the trans from the truck again as car show season is now upon us, thanks

 

[dana44]

Unless there is a heavy synthetic, I wouldn't recommend changing to something else. Part of the deal is the clearances of the components and materials they are made of have the requirement of the heavier oil to make them function, too thin promotes excessive wear and heat, which transmissions do not like. The new transmissions have clearances between components in the .0005 to .0025 range, your A833 has clearnaces measuered in the .0015 to .006, meaning heavier oil is needed to keep parts from clacking each other and breaking, so not worth it to chance a thinner oil. Sorry to hear about the leaking side case.

 

[ImperialCrown]

An oil with an API GL-4 rating for good copper/bronze/brass synchro operation is recommended. Regular hypoid axle 90W lube may not have this rating. GL-5 lube doesn't conform either.

I have used BG Synchro-Shift II synthetic with good results.

http://kansasbg.com/Complete_Set_of_Spec_and_Tech/792_SPEC.pdf

http://www.allpar.com/fix/gear-oil.html

 

[mopar56]

well both good answers, I understand now why they switched to dextron on the newer ones, I also have a BG rep in town so I will ask him about the BG syncro shift II, in the meantime its back under the truck to make another attempt to seal it, I think I know the underside of this truck better than the top side now,lol

 

[mopar56]

new discovery!!, went to attempt a re-seal again only to discover that it wasnt wet at the side cover gasket but actually the leak is coming from the seal at the 1-2 shift rod, I looked through all my manuals I have, (dont have a factory one though) and some call it a seal, some a o-ring, dose anyone have a factory service manual to look this up? or know from experience what type of seal used also the procedure to change it, can it be done from the outside by removing the shift rod lever, I can access the lever from inside the truck simply be peeling back the carpet and removing one small access panel then the lever is right there, also before any attempt to re-seal it is made I am going to add some auto trans fluid stop leak, it may swell the seal/o-ring enough to stop the leak?. Lastly before the trans swap the speedo had stopped working, while things were apart during the winter we discovered that the cruise servo was partially seized, and it had snapped the cable inner core, we made an attempt to repair the servo but were unsucessfull so we removed the servo and two seperate cables and replaced with just one new single cable bypassing the cruise, before installing the cable in the trans speedo gear we spun the cable by hand and the speedo worked however on our road test it did not, any ideas?, I am going to remove the speedo cable at the trans again to re-test but havnt had a chance yet, thanks

 

[AC TC]

be careful with syn´s i these, they may get notchy due to syncronisers not working
good.
The dex use was probably just for keeping a lowe oilstash at the dealer, dex is not a perfect oil for manual trannys.
I would look for a dino 75w, 80w- 90 GL4 oil or one of the "syncro" mtf´s thats avail. i wouldn´t choose a light wheight
mtf ( "mtl" ) i i had a choice and i wouldt use "shockproof" from rli either ( its a racing oil, nothing for 100 kmiles)

 

[dana44]

I think the side cover is going to have to come off, because once the shifter attachment arm comes off, the fork leaves the case from the inside, and from there an O-ring would be within the case sleeve to keep the oil from leaking. I wouldn't mix 90Wt and auto trans seal stuff together in a transmission, a manual trans doesn't heat up enough to make the stuff work, and not sure if they will even mix nicely. As far as the speedo goes, if the engagement is similar to the auto trans I am familiar with, once the gear is installed, it has to be meshed with the worm gear on the output shaft of the trans, otherwise they don't work, period. Broken cables happen,your bypass is just a matter of routing, shouldn't have anything to do with it not functioning at this point.

 

[mopar56]

Ok just to be clear though, I wasnt going to mix auto trans sealer with 90w, I was going to add it to the current dextron that is in the trans, I wasnt aware that it required heat to activate it I thought it was just the propertys that swell the seals to stop the leak, in regaurds to the gear, I actually used the same gear from the auto trans as the 4spd didnt come with one, everything seemed to fit, I didnt mesh anything though, it just slid right in, maybe I missed a step here, explain "mesh" please, AC I agree with your theory about the dex in stds but as a kid I ran several of these trannys, they all came with dex in them, one was even brand new and they all worked fine, even the manual says to use it so I am a little shy of using something other than dex.

 

[dana44]

If you look at the speedo gear insert into the transmission, the screw threads are offset from the center, the outer rim has a bunch of numbers and a bunch of shallow slots. The different tooth number colored gears have to mesh with the worm screw plastic gear that attaches to the output shaft of the transmission, the different notches and such are to allow the mesh of the gear in the speedo housing to match the worm gear and allow for the different turning ratios in the rear end. They so slide right in, but from there, they have to be turned to the point they mesh without having to change the output shaft worm gear every time you change rear end gearing and still get the speedo to remain accurate. I have a tiny screwdriver I can stick into the end of the speedo cable end of the housing so I can turn the gear a little bit while twisting the housing to ensure the gears are meshing before attaching the clamp. You can test this before removal and readjustment, see if it turns freely, and if so, the speedo gear is not meshing with the worm gear on the output shaft. I may lack a little knowledge on the A833 fluids, was not aware any of them changed from 90Wt to a lighter oil in them, but I would say go with the year of the trans and the recommended oil and leave it at that, improvements in gears, synchros and clearances dictate the weight of oil to fill them.

 

[mopar56]

Ahhh, this is probably where we went wrong!, normally when removing something that is indexed I would make a reference mark before removing but as mentioned earlier we did not get a speedo housing or gear with the used a833 but as it was the same as the 727 we swapped it over therefore not having any reference, I wondered what all the marks and notches were for on the housing and now that I think of it I seem to remember installing the gear/housing assembly into the tail shaft without the cable then taking a small section of the broken cable and inserting it into the housing and spinning it and it spun freely, I assumed that was normal as it was in neutral at the time when in fact it just plain isnt engauging, so back under the truck I go again, love these father/son projects!, lol, thanks I will let you know how it gose.

 

[AC TC]

This is what i would use: Redline oils 75w90 NS Gear oil.
Dex is a lousy gear oil, if i would usea an atf it would be atf+4 but i have no
idea what the friction modifiers in it would do to the synchros. (atf+4 would probably meet the GL4 standard, dex- not a chance)

 

[mopar56]

AC TC I realize that oils of all kinds have improved/changed changed over the years but 75w90 is a lot thicker than dextron is it not?, how sure are you of it working without issues? have you tried it before yourself?, I am up to switching as I am going to have to drain this thing again anyway.

 

[AC TC]

AC TC I realize that oils of all kinds have improved/changed changed over the years but 75w90 is a lot thicker than dextron is it not?, how sure are you of it working without issues? have you tried it before yourself?, I am up to switching as I am going to have to drain this thing again anyway.

I´ve used it myself in a a833.
Its not all that much thicker than dex but it is a real gear oil.
Note that you shuold stay away from GL5 oils unless youre super sure that they
dont contain LS additive or soft metal eating EP additives. (rli clears both)
Going with a GL4 clears both. GL5 is great for rear axles wich have the "sliding" hypoid type of gears.

 

[mopar56]

ok so I have spent some time researching this now and with the help of allpar here also, I have ordered 3 bottles of the Syncro shift II from BG, I couldnt find any Redline oil products where I am and the Royal Purple syncromesh was $25.00 per bottle, I know BG makes a good product as I used to sell them years ago and the properties of it are similar to the Redline and others so hopefully the rep will drop it off today and I will put it in the trans on the weekend and I will let you know if it seems any different. We spent a lot of time and money on this project over the winter and as we installed a good used a833od we want to install the best fluid we can for longivity and to hold up to some periodic punishing shifts, lol, after all we built this for fun! Also well we have this drained we will index the speedo as mentioned earlier by dana44 in this thread, by the way on another note one of the other things that was done on this truck was installation of a set of headers, and as usual they leaked everywhere which headers do, but we discovered a new brand of header gasket made in the USA by "Remflex" they are 100% carbon fibre and they are AWESOME!, we took off the old gasket that was leaking the other day and put these on, header leaks gone! they are about twice as thick as the reg gaskets and have a lot more compression, anyway probably should have put that on another thread but just thought I would mention that.

 

[dana44]

All sounds good. Headers are always a pain, I rarely use them anymore, dual exhaust and large enough pipes on the street are usually enough. TTi headers, although very expensive, are by far the best out there, and at least the LA engines don't burn the plug wires since the plugs are on top of the exhast pipes, it is road rash from all but TTi headers I really hate.