[95chryslercirrus]

This is a weird one, and I will try to explain this to the best of my ability. It will be a little lengthy I am sure. When it is below 80°, this problem is hardly noticeable. My air conditioner is cycling off before it starts to get cold enough when the temp is above 80° outside. It starts to feel great, then it cycles off, gets warmer, then cycles back on. It seems to be performing well otherwise. Last year this problem was worse. I had a certified mechanic flush, replace the schrader valves, vacuum down, confirm it held vacuum, then charge according to the car's capacity. He said it looked great on the gauges, and when he was done, it worked better, but would still cycle before it got cold enough.

Playing around in the engine bay around last September, I discovered that the wires to the high pressure transducer/switch had fallen out and weren't connected all the way. I removed the plug and fixed the pins, then crimped the wires back in. I had a considerable improvement in performance. But the problem hasn't gone away at high outside temperatures.

What could cause this problem? I wonder if I had put the transducer wires back into the plug correctly or not, if it's a computer or evaporator probe issue, I am not sure. But it seems my AC system has a lot of potential and it's being held back. On a side note, my AC compressor clutch makes a clinking noise when it disengages sometimes, just in case that is relevant. Thanks for your replies in advance!

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Looks like it's time to get me some gauges. I have some for r-12 but not 134a. Use to have an old Honda...

I guess I would be wise to remove the evaporator probe and present it to one of the temperatures and check resistance. How difficult is it to remove the probe? Does it require removal of the dash? I guess if not, I would wait till the AC cycles off and see what the resistance value was.

When I bought the car, coincidentally, it DID have an overcharge. Code 33, AC volts too high, and I decided to take it in. It was a $100 dollar service. You could be right, I never saw the gauges. But I brought it in after the service complaining, and my mechanic's AC tech came out saying he couldn't find a problem. He is a personal kind of mechanic, and I knew him back when he was running his shop out of his house as a one-man-band. Now that he owns his own separate shop, I would hope he isn't corrupt yet. Maybe his AC tech is though.

What should be the high side pressure? If I get some 134a gauges, I will be hooking up both sides. Thanks for your prompt reply!

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Yeah. It literally seems to be like rocket science, and odd problems all the time. And lots of money in equipment to diagnose. It would be nice to have the computer tell me its conditions for disabling the clutch too.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

That information is PRICELESS. What is your '96 minivan? My neighbor had a '97 Chrysler Minivan, and it was the same vintage as my car. Same grille, hood design, the same brake lights and headlights, and stock stereo. I am sure there are more similarities, but I do not know any off the too of my head. Possibility that we have the same "air-box"? I will attempt to find my AC evaporator probe and see if my hand will fit inside. Do what you did and investigate. I have wanted to remove the whole dashboard and remove the air box, since I have a minor water leak, the car smells like wet dog when it rains. But I didn't wanna evacuate, vacuum down, recharge, etc.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Well that was sort of a bust. I could barely put 2 fingers into the hole provided for the evaporator probe. I could barely see inside there, but the evaporator appeared to be covered in dust, lint, and black mold. I was not able to pull the probe out, and I am sure the whole car needs taken apart to access it. I tried to feel around the evaporator with the best of my ability, but I could not get to the edges to feel for a seal strip present. I am reluctant to take apart the whole car, but I do not have a choice it looks like. At least then I could rule out the climate control as causing the issue.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

That would make much sense. My car is halfway torn apart and it is going to be downpouring outside for the next 3 days, otherwise I would tell you. I would guess that my evaporator is original, but there really is no way of telling unless I see signs of someone tearing into the dash. Found some screws loose, would account for the annoying rattling... I have to tear it apart anyway to get to the evaporator all the way. And if it isn't oily substance, then I will just clean it. I do have fluorescent die in my PAG. It should be reactive to UV black light. If it lights up like a highlighter, we'll know if it's broken alright.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

I thought I would update everyone on this topic.

Me and my brother bought a can of 134a with his car, and it conveniently included a gauge for the low side. Today, being curious, I hooked it up to my car. I did an experiment on my car and poured water on the condenser, which made the AC colder as expected. It was 80° outside when I did the check. My low side pressures were 20-25 PSI. Looking at 134a temperature to pressure charts, it should be around 40-50 PSI.

Anyone have experience with this on the cloud cars? Does it sound like I am low on refrigerant? I added the last of the refrigerant I had, and it bumped the PSI up about 5. The condenser got hoter than before as I added refrigerant and the fans kicked up to the 2nd highest speed. Made me think it was becoming more efficient and transferring heat better. I don't want to accidentally add too much and trip code 33, so I am checking my basics. Thanks guys!

 

[95chryslercirrus]

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c152800898a3

Figure 5 shows code 33 as AC volts too high, too low, or as you said, clutch relay circuit. When I took it into the mechanic last year for AC re-work, he said he pulled code 33 out for AC pressure sensor volts too high. If this does not apply to my vehicle though, I will not worry about it.

I agree about the high side pressure gagues, but my manifold set is for R12 and I do not have money to buy adapters to make the gauges fit 134a couplings. I did however, list that the ambient temperature was 80 degrees outside with 20-25 PSI on the low side. According to charts found on the web and on my 134a can, with an ambient temperature of 80, low side pressure should be between 40-50 PSI.

I am not trying to start an argument here, I am willing to be proved wrong on whatever it takes to get my car fixed using the friendly people here at Allpar. If I got ripped off by my AC mechanic and code 33 does not apply to my Cirrus, then I will not go back to him again. He did say he found extra and wasn't able to put back in what he took out, according to the cars refrigerant capacity label, but that doesn't mean he didn't lie and kept extra for himself. I was never charged for refrigerant, but never reimbersed me for the "extra" they kept.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Code 33 can be set if the A/C clutch relay is removed anytime the ign. is on. This may have been set unintentionally during a diagnosis where the relay might have been temporarily removed for jumping or voltage checks?
Is it blowing cold inside and the condenser getting warm outside? The fans are coming on, so some pressure differential exists and that is good.
Too high a pressure in the system might have happened if air was already present in the system and a complete reclaim and evacuation wasn't done before charging. Too high a concentration of air is bad. It must be pure refrigerant.
It may not have originally been too much refrigerant in the system for the reason that the tech had to take some out, although you don't want to arbitrarily add refrigerant unless you can prove that it is low first and only then monitor how much you are adding.

Very possible. It was present when I got the car. After I had the AC worked on, he cleared the code. It has not come back, but summer is just starting.

Yes it is blowing cold inside, but to a point. Condenser was getting hot enough to steam the water off of it (I took the front grilles off and cleaned the condenser). I also continued to run water over the condenser for about 10 minutes, and was getting the AC to cycle on and off because of the increased performance, then it was REALLY cold inside, and that is when I was reading 20-25 PSI on the low side. Both fans come on, and the hotter the condenser gets, the faster the computer makes them spin. I have only heard them kick into full speed about once or twice. Usually they spin on low or medium speeds. I am considering adding a small fan in front of the condenser to push the air better.

I took it in because on a 100 degree day with the AC on it was coming out the vents at 80 degrees traveling on the freeway at 70MPH. That is way too hot. I had him change the schrader valve seals and the receiver/drier, flush the system, then vacuum down and verify it held, then refill. I can confirm both were changed, because the seals quit leaking UV dye and a different receiver/drier unit was installed.

It was cheaper to take it to him to have him do it, than buy my own recovery tank, vacuum pump, refrigerant+ester or PAG oil, and gauges for 134a. If I cannot pinpoint my issues, I may need go and do it myself and properly diagnose this. I have read reviews, and this car, along with many other Chrysler products have had amazing air conditioners. Grandpa has a Grand Caravan and it's AC will freeze you out on a summer desert day!

I have a way to monitor the low side of the AC system, I need to figure out some adapters for the R12 gauges I have to monitor high too. How would I be able to prove that it is low? Thanks!

 

[95chryslercirrus]

This is the gauge that I am using to look at my low side pressures. It came with the can.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BSNNY2?ie=UTF8

No I did not. It did appear to be mold on the evaporator coil, no signs of leakage anywhere that I can see.

How can you modify the AC hoses and still be able to use them? It looks like the r12 ends are crimped on well. I would be able to use the hoses and get some 134a hose fittings and put them on if I could figure out how to make them stay on the ends.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

I am planning on buying some new gauges, and I found some on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HVAC-R12-R22-R134A-R134-R502-Freon-AC-Refrigeration-Charging-Manifold-Gauge-Kit-/281011118105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416d916019

What do you guys think? I will post back pressures as soon as they arrive and go from there.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Okay, I got some 134a gauges, my numbers are as follows. I let the AC stabilize for 10 minutes before taking these readings.
Engine RPM: 720
Ambient Temp: 82°
Vent Temp: 40°
Low: 28 PSI
High: 250 PSI, and the needle was shaking +/- 10 PSI.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

I wonder why it cycles on and off so much when driving then. Was driving around, same ambient temp, and it was only coming out at 65 F.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

UPDATE:

I still cannot find the solution to this problem, but I have new numbers. At idle, the high side pressures slowly climb to 400+ PSI, where the computer cycles the AC on and off to protect itself from too high of head pressures and damage. 90° ambient. Low side pressure stays between 40-45 PSI. BOTH fans are running full speed when this happens too. And my condenser is cleaned and bug/rock free. I no longer have an AC this summer, and this problem does not alleviate with driving around. Compressor engages and disengages the entire time I drive. This car is about to go over a cliff with all of it's problems. Can anyone help, please? Thanks.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

@Bob:
Yes, pressures went down when I sprayed water. But it did not cycle on and off like it did in the past when I did it. But I have no clue why they are this high to begin with.

@Imperial

Nothing has changed. Except the ambient temps. AC has not been worked on since last August. He said he did do a vacuum down and refill of refrigerant according to the label on the car. I also paid for a new receiver/drier and new schrader valve seals. It started doing this as the ambient temp went into the 90°'s outside. I had my 3 month old nephew in the car last week, and the AC started cycling. Performance also drops to nothing when I am stopped. I took the bumper off and cleaned the condenser well, and combed all the fins straight. I considered adding another fan, but there is no large enough space between my frame and condenser/radiator assembly. Or the frame and the bumper for a pusher fan.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

How would I go about draining oil from the compressor when the system is at rest? Do I need to evacuate refrigerant? Or could I just crack open a line and have oil come out before refrigerant? I would take out about and ounce and go from there if possible. Otherwise, I can have the same mechanic evacuate my system for me, so I can replace parts. Then I can take it back to him and he will vacuum down and refill it. He wants $100 for the use of his machine though. This is getting expensive.

It was cooling fine last night, but I had soaked the condenser before driving around, and temperatures had dropped to about 80° ambient. Went and drove it 20 minutes ago, and I got pissed and just turned it off. It was not cooling whatsoever, but the compressor was running, wasn't cycling. Ambient 100°+ today.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

At this age, do you think, that it would be wise to replace everything on the AC system? Evaporator, condenser, expansion valve, condenser, compressor, and lines? I am weary of getting it back together just to take it all apart. AC stuff is VERY VERY expensive. And even more for the labor charged to do everything.

The mechanic has no warranties or discounts for previous work done, though his everyday prices are much cheaper. PepBoys wants $200 just to touch it. He will do a evacuate, then I can come back for him to do vacuum down for $45. Refrigerant is $20 a LB. or I could charge it myself at $10 per 12 oz at Walmart. Car holds 1.6lbs or 26oz? I think that is what it said when I last looked.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Alright sounds good. I found a website that specified how much oil goes into the system. Interdynamics.com. It's only about 5 ounces. It is very easy to over charge oil, considering a lot of refrigerant cans come with an ounce of oil. On the plus side, I will be sealing wherever the leak is so I don't need to do this again.

I have recently attached my new 134a gauges to about 4 cars. And fixed the AC on all of them. 2 low on refrigerant, and all 4 needed a condenser cleaning. Anyways, on all 4 of those cars, the high side gauge needle didn't "flutter" or shake rappidly with the compressor running. But it does on mine. Cluing me into it not being normal. What can cause this? Thank you very much for your help, IC. I wanna get this right.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

There is a good chance a sealer is in there. I have never known what they can do, but I asked my mechanic to flush out the system. I am going to try and do all of this myself after I have it evacuated.

I will plan on removing every component from the vehicle for inspection and cleaning. I need to find a kit that would have the O rings for all of the connections.

When looking at the compressor, is there any way to disassemble it or test the reed valves off the car? If they are indeed bad, can it be rebuilt? Or should I just get a new compressor?

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Are all the compressors the same under that model number? Or are there different configurations? I am finding a lot of them online, that run $200-$400. I am not sure if there are different clock or mounting positions that were made to fit each application. Looks like this compressor is on the Chrysler Concorde and Eagle, then some Mitsubishi, Honda, and Toyota vehicles.