Allpar Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I looked for discussions on this and found nothing. Are there aftermarket pumps you trust? I want to replace the one in our '02 GCSport as preventive medicine.

I don't know who makes OEM pumps for Chrysler. AAP sells Airtex, Bosch, Delphi, Denso, and Spectra. Airtex is cheapest at $160 and Spectra the top at $320. A pump from Chrysler Parts Direct here is $288.

Suggestions?

edit to add: In reading the fine print of all 5 pumps listed at AAP, it says the Delphi is "actual OE part".
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,982 Posts
I've been running Bosch in my cars for awhile now, no issues. They were about $185 from Rockauto.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
I have had no complaints from the Precision and Delphi pumps I sell to my customers. I always tell them too that they get what they pay for, so if you want your pump to last it's worth the extra cash. Also keep in mind that in order to have a valid warranty on pumps you need to purchase a new strainer (if the pump doesnt come with it already) and a new fuel filter at the same time. I highly recommend this, I have had countless times where customers will bring me in a bad pump to warranty and after a short discussion find out that they never replaced the fuel filter and as a result it killed their new pump.
 

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thank you gentlemen. I believe I'll go with the OEM Delphi and it comes complete. Naturally, I'll do a fuel filter while under there.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,351 Posts
This is the strainer (filter) before the pump, not after. If the pump ingests water, contamination or debris through a defective strainer it may kill the pump and void the warranty. Most complete pump assemblies come with a new strainer.
You can replace just the pump motor and reuse the plastic housing: Walbro_255LPH_In_Tank_Fuel_Pump.jpg but it is usually more convenient just to replace the whole assembly: 57461077.gif
An 11 year old vehicle may have years (or one bad fill-up) of contaminants laying at the bottom or on the inside walls of the plastic tank. I have drained, scrubbed, rinsed and dried out old tanks after their 2nd or 3rd pump. Worst case is having to replace the tank if I can't reach my arm inside to clean it out.
Always go with a new pump as I've had repeated replacements with a reman pump.
 

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
IC, thanks for the info. I'll be certain to look the inside of the tank over good. I have had some RV's at work with tanks so bad you wouldn't believe it. Most have been parked for an extended period then when they attempt to use them they either won't start or don't go very far.

Can you recommend any specific additive that I can be using to clean the tank? I'll use a few doses and still do a good inspection while it's out.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,351 Posts
I have also cleaned them out with isopropyl dry gas and a lint-free rag. I have been suprised at the amount of 'scum' and dirt inside some tanks.
The strainer on some pumps can filter down to 10 microns. This won't even allow water to pass through, so any water in the tank would stay in the tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
862 Posts
I installed a Denso pump ($180) in my 2002 T&C about two months ago. When I unwrapped the pump I noticed that the "Walbro" trademark was molded into the side of it. Also, the pump was identical to the old (OEM) pump which also had "Walbro" molded into it at the exact same location. So, you would assume that Denso pumps for the T&C are made by Walbro, or at least this one was. You can refer to my article on fuel pump replacement in the minivan repairs section of this website.
 

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Cass, excellent guideline in the repair section. I wasn't sure if I needed that special tool for the pump lock ring. On my '96, I used a chain wrench to get the ring loose if I remember correctly. I'll be sure to bring my brass punch home from work when I do the pump. Probably next weekend as it's in transit now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
My ace mechanic said a few years ago that only Alpar pumps were any good based on his experience and all he will install.

However, the primary cause of fuel pump failure is poor grounds. He added an additional ground wire to my '88 - no more problems for eight years. I also check it with a multimeter about every two years. I check voltage, not resistance, with the pump running. It should be no more than a few millivolts - like 375 or in that range. If it is anything near a volt it is not a good ground.
 

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
gusc said:
However, the primary cause of fuel pump failure is poor grounds. He added an additional ground wire to my '88 - no more problems for eight years. I also check it with a multimeter about every two years. I check voltage, not resistance, with the pump running. It should be no more than a few millivolts - like 375 or in that range. If it is anything near a volt it is not a good ground.
Interesting. I always figured heat due to not keeping the tank at least 1/4 full was the biggest killer of fuel pumps. Also, I'm surprised that the pump doesn't use regular battery voltage to operate. Where in the circuit does it get cut back?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,982 Posts
Heat is certainly a significant cause of failure. However, I've never seen any analysis that asserts that the 'primary' cause of failure is grounding. Fuel pumps have a dedicated ground wire in the harness so that they are not dependent on grounding back through the chassis.

gusc is referring to the voltage drop being an indicator of poor connections. Measure the battery voltage and then measure the voltage across the pump when running, and it should be virtually the same. The bigger the difference (voltage drop), the bigger the unwanted resistance somewhere in the circuit (often a corroded connection).

Fuel pumps mounted in tanks require enough fuel around them to keep them from overheating, which is why I never let it get below 1/4 tank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
I didn't make myself very plain, sorry.

In general the pump demands full wattage. If some pump voltage is lost across a high resistance (Poor gnd) the amps increase to keep watts constant which = more heat which = short motor winding life. Same thing that burns our home AC comp motors during brown-outs.

The voltage reading I mean is the difference between a good ground on the chassis and the ground point of the pump which is the flange outside the tank.

Instead of reading ohms you read the voltage difference across gnd with the pump running. Ideally there should be none and 375 mv (0.375V) is a very small voltage. If this poor gnd saps as much as 0.5 to one volt this means the pump is now running on inadequate voltage, not good!

The reason for using mv is the accuracy is far better than with ohms, my mechanic put me on to this and it makes sense. The ohmmeter could easily show a good gnd whereas such a voltage small reading will easily show up.
 

·
Living in RV heaven. You think cars are bad!
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
gusc said:
Instead of reading ohms you read the voltage difference across gnd with the pump running. Ideally there should be none and 375 mv (0.375V) is a very small voltage. If this poor gnd saps as much as 0.5 to one volt this means the pump is now running on inadequate voltage, not good!

The reason for using mv is the accuracy is far better than with ohms, my mechanic put me on to this and it makes sense. The ohmmeter could easily show a good gnd whereas such a voltage small reading will easily show up.
I should have figured that out. sorry. Do you use wire piercing probes, such as come with a Power Probe, to get at the wires and take the readings? I haven't looked yet. The harness may be accessible as some are.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,982 Posts
The voltage difference between the chassis and the pump ground (which, again, is a dedicated wire) does not matter to the pump, because it's grounded through the harness back to a point in the engine compartment (left fenderwell to battery). What matters there is the quality of the ground connection at the fenderwell. It can be completely isolated at the tank and still get proper grounding and full voltage to the pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
Bob,

I'm sure you're right, my experience was with my '88 which apparently does not have the harness ground wire. I'm away from home so can't look in the diagrams. I don't know why this wasn't done years ago because gnds at the tank have always caused problems.

I've had no pump problems since the additional gnd wire was installed.

So, Ray, you can ignore all the info I gave you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
Plus on the newer vehicles (like Ray's van), the tank is all plastic (HDPE), the pump locking ring is plastic, and all the fuel/vent lines are plastic.
The only possible ground is through the wiring harness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
862 Posts
John Wood said:
Plus on the newer vehicles (like Ray's van), the tank is all plastic (HDPE), the pump locking ring is plastic, and all the fuel/vent lines are plastic.
The only possible ground is through the wiring harness.
I never thought I'd be contradicting you John, but the fuel pump lock ring on my 2002 T&C is definitely steel (the tank however, is plastic). Ray's van is also a 2002 so it's probably the same. However, there could have been a mid-model change to the tank design. Were you thinking of the 2008 and later vans, or possibly the pre-2001 Gen 3 minivans?

Also, when I installed my new fuel pump, I noticed a braided wire connecting the fuel filter to the vehicle's frame. I assume this is for static electricity discharge as the tank and OEM fuel filter are both plastic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,098 Posts
cass said:
I never thought I'd be contradicting you John, but the fuel pump lock ring on my 2002 T&C is definitely steel (the tank however, is plastic). Ray's van is also a 2002 so it's probably the same. However, there could have been a mid-model change to the tank design. Were you thinking of the 2008 and later vans, or possibly the pre-2001 Gen 3 minivans?

Also, when I installed my new fuel pump, I noticed a braided wire connecting the fuel filter to the vehicle's frame. I assume this is for static electricity discharge as the tank and OEM fuel filter are both plastic.
No problem Cass :). I'm always willing to learn from others.

My first thought was that it was the 96 he was working on but I re-checked the thread and it is indeed the 2002.
I find it interesting that they changed from a plastic lock ring to a metal ring. I recall a TSB on O-ring problems for the earlier vans with the plastic lock rings so perhaps the solution was to get rid of it completely.

I recall that braid clipped on my 96 fuel filter (plastic), as well, and like you, thought it must be there to bleed off any static charge.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top