[MoparNorm]

Plus I don't get your point on the 500. It only sold 45k in US? We are talking about a very small segment in terms of sales and it still manages to top it and compete with Mini after just 2 years of its debut. It should be taken as sign of hope for the bigger cars coming, not the opposite.

My point wasn't in regards to 500, 500 was used as the example, for Marchionne's missed assumption that 500 and rebadged Alfa's would take the US by storm and sell 80,000 NAFTA units in its first year.
After two years it's barely at 45,000 units.
Dart is starting off slow and Liberkee(r) shows no promise of doing better.
Frankly these cars might do better if they were sold as Fiats and Alfa's.
Conventional wisdom said, "small car, small car, Chrysler needs a small car".
To date, the small cars aren't selling as well as thought and Chrysler's growth has come from fixing what was wrong with the big cars.

 

[UN4GTBL]

Years forward or back from the original 2009 plan.

Thanks, after looking at it again, I clued in.

 

[Stratuscaster]

It took the 500 nearly two years to reach and stay above 3,000 units per month.

One year. US sales started in March 2011. US monthly sales have been above 3000 units consistently since February 2012.

Liberkee(r) shows no promise of doing better.

Based upon...what, exactly? Cant really base it upon Dart sales just because they share a basic platform - it's two different vehicles and two different markets.

 

[SouthPawXJ]

One year. US sales started in March 2011. US monthly sales have been above 3000 units consistently since February 2012.

Based upon...what, exactly? Cant really base it upon Dart sales just because they share a basic platform - it's two different vehicles and two different markets.

The biggest difference - two different marketing groups (I believe).

 

[patfromigh]

Small cars are selling big time. That's why people in Highland Park are fretting about the Dart, because sales of the compact segment competition dwarf the Dart's numbers.

How's the market for small SUVs and crossovers? Should Chrysler avoid this segment?

 

[jazz77]

Frankly these cars might do better if they were sold as Fiats and Alfa's.

Perhaps, but building small cars doesn't mean you take something away from the other core segments. Little by little you try to cover all the market and to build a good reputation in the compact segment.

Besides that, if you don't share technology and platforms you can't achieve any synergy which car makers such as Chrysler and Fiat are in desperate need of.

 

[AHHA]

UT = Guilia sedan
PA = Guilietta sedan
UL = ?
BA = ?

Other Than the New T-Town Cherokee V-1 Day is the Middle of May I Have NO Clue on the New 5-Year Plan.

And the Alfa Alphabet Soup is "UL, UT, BA, & PA" Some One Else Can Decode It I CAN'T.

As Far As Forbes Goes in the Famous Words of Richard Pryor "Suck What"!

TMD

 

[Dave Z]

I suspect Cherokee will do very well given how robust its segment is, and the powertrain is a LOT more attractive than Dart's. -- the new 3.2 and nine speed... dang.

It will get attention on launch just from having one more speed than any other mass production transmission.

I suspect it will have the most sophisticated transmission of any car near its price class -- the next best would be Charger.

 

[MoparDanno]

According to the master body code list in 'chrysler chat' from oh2o, UL was old code for Liberkee, UT was Avenger replacement. Most U codes were D-USW platform siblings. P codes are C-USW's. B code--no idea. Possibly SUSW/SCSS things, such as next gen MiTo, and 500L, 500X, Jeep Bseg.
My guess is PA is Alfa C-cuv, BA is Jeep B-segment. But that's a stab in the dark.

BA = 4C?

 

[MoparNorm]

.Based upon...what, exactly? Cant really base it upon Dart sales just because they share a basic platform - it's two different vehicles and two different markets.

Based upon its usefulness as a Jeep. It will sell to the 2WD CUV buyer, maybe, but it's lack of cargo room is going to hurt it overall in its appeal to many folks.
Again, it's my opinion and you're welcome to join the sales pool.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Could PA be the Compass replacement on the CUSW platform?

 

[Stratuscaster]

Based upon its usefulness as a Jeep. It will sell to the 2WD CUV buyer, maybe, but it's lack of cargo room is going to hurt it overall in its appeal to many folks.
Again, it's my opinion and you're welcome to join the sales pool.

I'm patiently waiting for actual numbers to determine if there even IS a lack of cargo room in the new Cherokee.

XJ Cherokee had 32.9 cuft of cargo space.
KJ Liberty had 29.0 cuft of cargo space.
KK Liberty had 26.1 cuft of cargo space.
13 Escape has 37.2 cuft of cargo space.
13 CR-V has 32.7 cuft of cargo space.

Safe to say that a cargo space of 32 cuft or greater is acceptable?

 

[marlon_jbt]

KK may have had less overall cargo space than XJ and KJ, BUT its usefulness that Norm is always talking about is MUCH better than KJ and actually in XJ territory, if not larger.

Useful cargo space, is anything from the cargo floor up to the bottom edge of the rear windows.

 

[james.mooney.]

a guess:

UL Giulia Sportwagon
UT Giulia sedan
BA MiTo
PA Giulietta

 

[marlon_jbt]

From what I have been told...

UJ = KL, same vehicle, one code older than the other.

UL was to be the Liberkee after the one to be released soon.

 

[Stratuscaster]

Useful cargo space, is anything from the cargo floor up to the bottom edge of the rear windows.

I beg to differ. Useful space is from load floor to ceiling, and using side mirrors as needed.

 

[Guest]

My ex has an 05 Liberty, and my son's fiance has a 2011 Liberty. The 2011 is miles ahead as far as cargo space and niceness of the interior. One can only wonder what would've been with a better trans and the pentastar under the hood..

 

[MoparNorm]

.Safe to say that a cargo space of 32 cuft or greater is acceptable?

Maybe yes, maybe no.
Ice chests, camp tables, Easy-Ups, cots and chairs, all are designed to be stored, long and cylindrical. The Liberkee(r) cargo space, from the lift gate to the back of the rear seat, appears to be short and tall. Might be volume, but if my Fridge-Freezer, stove, table, chairs and cots don't fit, it not more useable.
The XJ was narrow, but long, my gear fit, neatly and tightly packed, below the seat top and window sill level.
The KJ was wide and tall, my gear fit, crammed and stacked tall, blocking driver vision out the back and posing the potential for projectiles under hard braking. After a few hundred feet on a trail, the gear was a jumbled mess, because it was stacked so high.
If I want something out of the ice chest, several,items needed to be moved to reach it, or several items had to be left behind to allow that.
If you have no passengers, you can drop the seat and use that space, if the seats fold flat, if you have one or two children, it's too small.

 

[Stratuscaster]

Your mileage/cargo/travel plans may vary.

 

[Stratuscaster]

Understood - consumers comparing by the numbers alone without actually looking at or attempting to use the space may find themselves rudely awakened.