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Discussion Starter #1
Company is scaling back production of new Cherokee


This is very reassuring.....

http://www.toledoblade.com/Automotive/2013/09/23/Chrysler-temporarily-lays-off-some-Jeep-employees.html


Also here:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130923/OEM01/130929974/chrysler-idles-2nd-shift-at-cherokee-plant-dealers-still-not-getting#axzz2fji2uyoU

"Chrysler began producing Cherokees June 24 and planned to release the vehicles in mid-August, Jeep brand head Mike Manley said in late June. But the company has so far refused to release them, saying that the Cherokees required a software fix before they would be available to the public.
Tinson confirmed this morning that no Cherokees had yet been released to dealers."
 

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The Toledo Blade discovered that Chrysler has still not been shipping Jeep Cherokees to dealers, though some systems claim they are in transit, and lots which held large numbers of the new vehicle have been emptied. The news was confirmed by Chrysler’s Jodi Tinon, who also said that the second shift at Toledo, hired on August 19, has been idled to avoid “strain on our logistic partners” once the vehicles are released. Original Story • Automotive News coverage

Rumor from some sources suggests that the problem may be in the transmission software. The nine-speed automatic has a complex control system, which can be set up with a large number of different shift maps to meet different conditions; having all the shift maps pass EPA scrutiny may be difficult, and problems in any of them, discovered in extended testing, can cause delays as solutions are found and re-tested. The number of control maps in..

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Not mentioned, is the software issues with the AWD shift points in the traction control computer.
Those problems affect the hard shifts felt by the JP Magazine test drivers and may be related.
Expect mid October.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Has a vehicle ever been scheduled for release, and then completely shelved for an extended time due to problems? Not for nothing, but what were they testing with all of those mules if not something as basic as whether or not the engine & transmission work as expected?

"uhhhh...hey Ed...doesn't it seem like this car won't engage the 9th gear?"

"Yup."

"Ya' think we oughta tell that Sergio guy?"

"Nah...it'll work itself out in production...."
 

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So if the problems are centered around the Trailhawk, will Jeep proceed with a wide release of FWD Cherokees? Let's hope this isn't Dart Launch 2.0.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
GasAxe said:
So if the problems are centered around the Trailhawk, will Jeep proceed with a wide release of FWD Cherokees? Let's hope this isn't Dart Launch 2.0.
I could be wrong here, but I think these problems are Cherokee-wide...not just Trailhawk.
 

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GasAxe said:
So if the problems are centered around the Trailhawk, will Jeep proceed with a wide release of FWD Cherokees? Let's hope this isn't Dart Launch 2.0.
Reading carefully, this seems like more than Trailhawk, it seems related to the engine/trans management system, regardless of drive mode.
Interestingly, going from Sergio's first statement on the KL release date, his original date was late, 2012.

Quote:
January 13, 2012
This week at Detroit, Sergio Marchionne, CEO of Fiat Chrysler seemed to be at a loss for words as he alluded to how good the coming Liberty replacement would be. He even suggested that it would not need a platform mate when it begins rolling off the assembly line at Toledo, sometime later this year.

According to reliable sources, the problems may be severe enough to be complicating and delaying EPA certification and CAFE numbers.
 

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“According to reliable sources, the problems may be severe enough to be complicating and delaying EPA certification and CAFE numbers. ”

As Norm said. That's really the issue, I think. EPA certification.

Can we NOT have a bunch of crap postings about “stoopid bureaucrats” now? The rules are pretty well known to the engineers. The system has dozens of different shift maps and it’s Chrysler that goofed on one of them.

I can’t really lay a lot of blame down on this. It's a complicated system that was pushed too quickly. It will be dealt with and five years from now, be long forgotten.

I could point back to the 1960s with Valiant launch issues, too... 1957 “everything” issues... 1976 Volare/Aspen rust...

Ha ha, Toyota floor mat and electronics designs... VW Polo designers forgetting someone might have a size 11 foot...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I wonder if LR is having similar issues with the ZF in their Evoque. Similar car, similar traction settings, similar release timing...not so much hyped publicity. I wonder if the race to have the first 9-speed CUV was worth "winning"?
 

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I'm just curious-- If they're not being shipped to dealers and the storage lots have been emptied, where did they all go? Four hundred cars per shift since June is an awful lot of cars to store at the factory.

Also, if they're having this many problems with the nine speed in the Cherokee, will it delay the roll out in other vehicles? Could it slow the launch of the 200?
 

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With regard to Land Rover, probably not, since the problem is not the transmission. LR might also deal with the problem by rolling out in Europe first, if it is, as rumored here, an emissions certification problem.

Where they went? I don't know, but I would guess that they are either delivering them to geographically disparate points so they can reach dealers more quickly after the fix is applied, e.g. rail yards across the country, or they have a more “secret” holding pen...

Will this delay the 200 rollout? No, I don't think so, partly because they will have resolved it long before January 2014.
 

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This is the Jeep I may never see.... :yawn:
 

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I am not surprised they are having problems with the 9 speed, my 8 speed in my 2012 Charger is having slight problems after they reflashed my transmission control during a recall. Now the transmission gets lost and jumps gears quickly causing the engine to rev pretty high most noteable when going around slower corners. The problems I have been having since the recall is what I describe as a bump in downshifting causing excessive engine braking and a stumble as it sownshifts almost like it is stumbling through the gears and you feel everyone of them as if it downshiffted through 3 or 4 gears all at once causing the car to shutter slightly. Very disappointing, hoepfully they get it straighteded, not everyone is as loyal to Dodge as some of us are so I could see a Chevy in the future'
 

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Miles11 said:
I'm just curious-- If they're not being shipped to dealers and the storage lots have been emptied, where did they all go?
Are there any countries that are left hand drive that don't need to meet CAFE and EPA? They might all be on a slow boat to somewhere.
 

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CherokeeVision said:
Are there any countries that are left hand drive that don't need to meet CAFE and EPA? They might all be on a slow boat to somewhere.
China...
 

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Miles11 said:
I'm just curious-- If they're not being shipped to dealers and the storage lots have been emptied, where did they all go? Four hundred cars per shift since June is an awful lot of cars to store at the factory.
I think there was a report that 4000 have been built.

But, you ask the right question.......where are they? Did they take them back to the assembly plant?
Dave said:
Can we NOT have a bunch of crap postings about “stoopid bureaucrats” now? The rules are pretty well known to the engineers.
No, but as someone who has been dealing with EPA regulators lately, there are some arbitrary decisions being made that surprise the engineers.

That is not inside knowledge on the Cherokee, but speculation based on recent actions by EPA Regional Offices that stem from rule interpretations that differ from how those same rules were interpreted in the past.
 

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I think that the more the Jeep engineers fumble and stumble on the introduction of a new vehicle, the more likely it will be in the future to have FIAT engineers take over more and more of the engineering functions at Chrysler. If I were Marchionne right now, I would not be very impressed with the performance of my US-based engineering and production staff. After all, he has plenty of other choices (Italy, Brazil, even India....). First it was the Dart, now the Cherokee..... Not good! Just a thought.
 

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tryphon said:
I wonder if anyone here understands that the more the Jeep engineers fumble and stumble on the introduction of a new vehicle, the more likely it will be in the future to have FIAT engineers take over more and more of the engineering functions at Chrysler. If I were Marchionne right now, I would not be very impressed with the performance of my US-based engineering and production staff. After all, he has plenty of other choices (Italy, Brazil, even India....). Just a thought.
Not to pick a fight but you could say the same thing about the Italian engineering staff. Just look at the rumors of the multiple rejected designs for Alfa. Lets be honest here they had to make a capable Jeep out of the Alfa platform there were gonna be issues. New tranny new 4wd systems and all new platform/architecture. I think its way to early to be insinuating Jeep engineers arent capable people!
 

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Jeepnut said:
Not to pick a fight but you could say the same thing about the Italian engineering staff. Just look at the rumors of the multiple rejected designs for Alfa. Lets be honest here they had to make a capable Jeep out of the Alfa platform there were gonna be issues. New tranny new 4wd systems and all new platform/architecture. I think its way to early to be insinuating Jeep engineers arent capable people!
No fight sought, either! ..but the Alfas were rejected on style issues, not on production or engineering matters. The 4C introduction seems to be trouble-free, as was the FIAT 500L not too long ago. I am just saying that if you have several teams at your disposal, after a few near-misses you look elsewhere.
 

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There are now over 10,000 built. Not one yet in a dealership.

Hmmmm, 10,000 Cherokees in hiding.
Wasn't this a John Wayne movie in the late 1950s? :frusty:
 
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