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Automated System
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The Chrysler 200 was one of the Top 20 bestselling vehicles in March.[/caption] Chrysler Group's 5.0% March sales increase left the company comfortably ensconced in fourth place among the major automakers. Honda, which at one time outsold Chrysler, fell to sixth in March as Nissan set an all-time sales record. At the end of the first quarter, Chrysler was just over 90,000 sales ahead of  Honda and just over 101,000 sales behind Toyota. Chrysler's market share increased 0.2% to 11.8% last month as all three Detroit automakers combined to take a full point of share more than they did last year. Total Detroit share of the market rose to 44.9% from 43.9% in March 2012. The extra point was courtesy of the Japanese and Korean car companies. The Ram pickup came in sixth in the overall sales rankings for March, a big jump from its ninth..

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Still shaking my head in disbelief in how an 'ancient' platform (Chrysler Sebring/200 and Dodge Avenger) keeps racking up the hits and growing.
 

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Plymouth Makes It
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Just goes to show you that it was a good platform with bad peripherals, it doesn't hurt that its a seasoned vehicle so it can go out the door at a lower price. Being far from slow helps a lot.

Old guys dig it.

Hi Bear!!
 

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Bearhawke said:
Still shaking my head in disbelief in how an 'ancient' platform (Chrysler Sebring/200 and Dodge Avenger) keeps racking up the hits and growing.
It just goes to show that once you take the Daimler out of a car, it gets better.
Fiat is spending billions to change everything about Chrysler, some things needed to go, some are things which we hold dear, Im not so sure I'm going to like the company that comes out of that. Most of the products needed tweaking and improvements, but they didn't need to be turned into Alfa's or Ram's, or Fiat's.
The company is likely to survive, but Im not sure we are going to recognize, or be happy with, the finished product as Chrysler.
 

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MoparNorm said:
It just goes to show that once you take the Daimler out of a car, it gets better.
Fiat is spending billions to change everything about Chrysler, some things needed to go, some are things which we hold dear, Im not so sure I'm going to like the company that comes out of that. Most of the products needed tweaking and improvements, but they didn't need to be turned into Alfa's or Ram's, or Fiat's.
The company is likely to survive, but Im not sure we are going to recognize, or be happy with, the finished product as Chrysler.
How many 200s are selling internationally? Not many,,,,,
The market for cars is not just the US: it's time for pepole who are used to the "old ways" to understand that in orde3r to survive and thrive in the future Chrysler must produce cars for world markets and not just for the US. VW and Toyota are doing it and the new FIAT/Chrysler is at least trying to become a world maker of quality cars.
 

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tryphon said:
How many 200s are selling internationally? Not many,,,,,
The market for cars is not just the US: it's time for pepole who are used to the "old ways" to understand that in orde3r to survive and thrive in the future Chrysler must produce cars for world markets and not just for the US. VW and Toyota are doing it and the new FIAT/Chrysler is at least trying to become a world maker of quality cars.
Yeah, how true. Now, go out and see if you can buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, made for the United States and Canada in the rest of the world. Bet the only way you will find one is if it was a foreigner that took it over there. In other words, if what you say is correct, there woudn't be a problem with foreign designs being sold here in the USA and Canada (mostly, but not necessarily all inclusive), which explains the reason the Smart and Fiat 500s sell so well here.

Norm is right, and I already said, I won't be purchasing any Mopar after 2008 myself because it's just a name to me. I remain here because I still have an opinion and still breathe Mopar and can be like one of those old guys that still says Plymouth rules! If Fiat/Lancia/Alfa platforms were so great they never would have left, and if they did make major improvements in them, well, they would have been able to enter the market here without having a car company be given to them to do it.
 

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dana44 said:
Yeah, how true. Now, go out and see if you can buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, made for the United States and Canada in the rest of the world. Bet the only way you will find one is if it was a foreigner that took it over there. In other words, if what you say is correct, there woudn't be a problem with foreign designs being sold here in the USA and Canada (mostly, but not necessarily all inclusive), which explains the reason the Smart and Fiat 500s sell so well here.

Norm is right, and I already said, I won't be purchasing any Mopar after 2008 myself because it's just a name to me. I remain here because I still have an opinion and still breathe Mopar and can be like one of those old guys that still says Plymouth rules! If Fiat/Lancia/Alfa platforms were so great they never would have left, and if they did make major improvements in them, well, they would have been able to enter the market here without having a car company be given to them to do it.
You are ignoring the fact that VW. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford and many other companies have cars that are marketed world wide (with some local adaptations to meet local requirements). They share a platform and many components and are true world cars. Chrysler is bringing its cars to the same level, as necessary to survive and compete with these other companies. People who ignore reality and current market trends are what brought Chrysler to bankruptcy. Your disdain of FIAT does not void the fact that manufacturers need to share platforms across models marketed world-wide in order to survive.
 

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As a point of clarification, Chrysler Group engineers took the modern Fiat Auto C-Evo platform and associated architectures and re-engineered them to Compact US Wide. This saved Chrysler Group significant development money and time. The top hat is said to be 100% designed in Detroit, per Ralph Gilles. The magnificent interiors have been led by an ex-DCX fellow who did not want to return to Germany but instead wanted to help transform Chrysler.

The new cars are as Mopars as the hard points allow them to be. The Cherokee is the result of a changing market, evolving regulations, etc. These dynamics do not make the vehicle any less a Mopar or a Jeep.

I am rather looking forward to see the new 200 and I also hope that the design lends it well to a version to be well received by Lancisti.
 

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Norm and Dana, I agree 100% with your comments, and that's why for me the jury is still out on Fiat and Surgen. People can ROFLO their A all they want; I have reservations about where Chrysler is headed, and I would like to see Chrysler have a stronger presence in the rest of the world, not suffer the humiliation of having Chrycs rebadged as whatever. If Fiat has made such an improvement in their vehicles in the past 30 years, they shouldn't need to hang onto Chrysler's coat tails to re-enter the North American market. The next 2-3 years should be a good indicator of what direction SM is taking Chrysler. Incidentally, when so many of my work buddies thought Dumb and Dumber was the best thing that ever happened to Chrysler, I said right from the start, beware, this could be the worst thing ever...and sure enough...
 

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dana44 said:
Yeah, how true. Now, go out and see if you can buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, made for the United States and Canada in the rest of the world. Bet the only way you will find one is if it was a foreigner that took it over there. In other words, if what you say is correct, there woudn't be a problem with foreign designs being sold here in the USA and Canada (mostly, but not necessarily all inclusive), which explains the reason the Smart and Fiat 500s sell so well here.

Norm is right, and I already said, I won't be purchasing any Mopar after 2008 myself because it's just a name to me. I remain here because I still have an opinion and still breathe Mopar and can be like one of those old guys that still says Plymouth rules! If Fiat/Lancia/Alfa platforms were so great they never would have left, and if they did make major improvements in them, well, they would have been able to enter the market here without having a car company be given to them to do it.
Because before 2008 all the platforms/engines etc were Chryslers? What a ridiculous statement. I know the future is a scary place for some of you, and its too bad you'll be left of it, not sure you'll be missed though.
 

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tryphon said:
You are ignoring the fact that VW. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford and many other companies have cars that are marketed world wide (with some local adaptations to meet local requirements). They share a platform and many components and are true world cars. Chrysler is bringing its cars to the same level, as necessary to survive and compete with these other companies. People who ignore reality and current market trends are what brought Chrysler to bankruptcy. Your disdain of FIAT does not void the fact that manufacturers need to share platforms across models marketed world-wide in order to survive.
There is no "disdain" of Fiat, just a difference in perception. Your perception is that a "true" world car is an improvement, my perception is that it's a demotion. American cars were traditionally RWD, solid and dependable. They had a ride designed for comfort.
Imports were less than solid, less than dependable, but small light and sporty. Perhaps a bit more fun to drive, but not as comfortable, not as quiet.
And...as for the theory that a company needs to sell world wide to survive, with Europe in economic transition, this is the worst possible time to ascribe to that unproven economic experiment. The fact remains, European and Asian car makers come to the US to survive, not the other way around.
Is there money to be made selling world wide? No doubt, but as American cars. One need only look at Buick in China. It's keeping GM afloat, but the long term results are uncertain.

JRS200x said:
Because before 2008 all the platforms/engines etc were Chryslers? What a ridiculous statement. I know the future is a scary place for some of you, and its too bad you'll be left of it, not sure you'll be missed though.
Come on, tone it down. We can have a discussion without resorting to personal attacks.
 

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It was/is a ridiculous statement. He is saying that he cannot buy a MOPAR after 2008 because its no longer MOPAR when before they were Mercedes platforms, or Mitsubishi engines and/or platforms etc etc. The last true full MOPAR product was a loooonnng time ago. The world changes, the industry changes, but it all strikes me as xenophobia from a lot of people on here...
 

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JRS200x said:
It was/is a ridiculous statement. He is saying that he cannot buy a MOPAR after 2008 because its no longer MOPAR when before they were Mercedes platforms, or Mitsubishi engines and/or platforms etc etc. The last true full MOPAR product was a loooonnng time ago. The world changes, the industry changes, but it all strikes me as xenophobia from a lot of people on here...
Yes. 100 percent.
Also worth noting that many of the folks that subscribe to this way of thinking tend to yell loudest here.
 

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JRS200x said:
It was/is a ridiculous statement. He is saying that he cannot buy a MOPAR after 2008 because its no longer MOPAR when before they were Mercedes platforms, or Mitsubishi engines and/or platforms etc etc. The last true full MOPAR product was a loooonnng time ago. The world changes, the industry changes, but it all strikes me as xenophobia from a lot of people on here...
That was toning it down...?

CarsandGuitars said:
Yes. 100 percent.
Also worth noting that many of the folks that subscribe to this way of thinking tend to yell loudest here.
There are some who sit quietly, while crimes are being committed and others who take action...
 

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JRS, that wasn't called for; if you are entitled to your opinion, others should be entitled to their opinions also. It has nothing to do with xenophobia at all, but unfortunately name calling is an all too favorite tactic of people who claim to be so tolerant of others, until they disagree with the other person's opinion. Then it's a totally different story.
 

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There was no name calling and I never said he wasn't entitled to opinion. But what he said just isn't TRUE. If his post had been 100% true, then I have no problem, but acting like all MOPAR products before 2008 are sacred pure MOPAR products is just false. There was nothing true about it. We were using engines and platforms from companies we weren't even a part of (mitsubishi). At least now it is all "in-house" to a degree. FURTHERMORE, it has been discussed before that a lot of these platforms are stop gaps and that more true Chrysler platforms/products most likely WILL appear. The company doesn't have a ton of money right now, they are using what they can and they are using GOOD platforms. Sure, would I prefer to see the new Cherokee on a purpose built platform? Absolutely. They can't do it though and as such and I am perfectly happy with the way they went.

Its called good business sense and if you were a TRUE MOPAR fan, you would simply want to see the company survive and do the best that it can, which.. well it is as far as I can tell.
 

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MoparNorm said:
There is no "disdain" of Fiat, just a difference in perception. Your perception is that a "true" world car is an improvement, my perception is that it's a demotion. American cars were traditionally RWD, solid and dependable. They had a ride designed for comfort.
Imports were less than solid, less than dependable, but small light and sporty. Perhaps a bit more fun to drive, but not as comfortable, not as quiet.
Unfortunately, even that comment is of a mindset of nearly thirty years ago. I'm not trying to poke at you, but looking at the market, import cars are dependable, they are quiet, and they are comfortable. I think you are missing that the desires of the appliance consumers have shifted from the "traditional" way of things in the last fifteen to twenty years and that has many of the "traditional" folks standing on the corner shaking their heads.

Right or wrong, I don't know... But American cars have not been traditionally rear wheel drive for thirty years, this includes the best selling American cars.

Mike
 

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It IS possible to have it both ways...

It is perfectly fine to romantically look back at former loves. It is even okay to gloss over their weaknesses and remember only the high points. And if one chooses to drive solely those fine old dames, ignoring all the huge advances in technology, reliability, comfort and drivability, well, who's to say there's anything wrong with that? I'm not getting rid of my wife for a younger model, even though we both have 16 more years of wear on us.

And it is perfectly fine to take a realistic view of the future--one that deals with the cold, hard realities of being starved for development cash at various points in corporate history. What will make Chrysler competitive in the future is the ability to get the best technologies it can, at the lowest cost and in the least amount of time. Even in the old days, Chrysler was always the scrappiest of the big 3. Which might have sent it in directions that richer companies might not have preferred (but which are now generally romanticized as good decisions, because we are the ones who liked those decisions). Well, so far as I can tell (and I am ONLY a fan and NOT in the industry), Chrysler's engineers and staff are still doing that. Where does that lead Chrysler? Who knows, really. It will cause some old fans to peel off and go another way. But it will still be the best thing, if it brings in new loyal fans, ones who will romanticize the current and future Chryslers when they too are decades old.

And let's face the real issue. In 20 or 30 years, it's possible that 95% of all vehicles will drive themselves down the road. That they'll be nothing but big boxes from which we can work or watch a movie while we are transported down the road. I understand the advantages of such a system, but frankly, it will make EVERYONE on this board sound like old romantics when we have to try to remind a new generation of youngsters of how much fun it once was to do it oneself...
 
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