It just goes to show that once you take the Daimler out of a car, it gets better.Bearhawke said:Still shaking my head in disbelief in how an 'ancient' platform (Chrysler Sebring/200 and Dodge Avenger) keeps racking up the hits and growing.
How many 200s are selling internationally? Not many,,,,,MoparNorm said:It just goes to show that once you take the Daimler out of a car, it gets better.
Fiat is spending billions to change everything about Chrysler, some things needed to go, some are things which we hold dear, Im not so sure I'm going to like the company that comes out of that. Most of the products needed tweaking and improvements, but they didn't need to be turned into Alfa's or Ram's, or Fiat's.
The company is likely to survive, but Im not sure we are going to recognize, or be happy with, the finished product as Chrysler.
Yeah, how true. Now, go out and see if you can buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, made for the United States and Canada in the rest of the world. Bet the only way you will find one is if it was a foreigner that took it over there. In other words, if what you say is correct, there woudn't be a problem with foreign designs being sold here in the USA and Canada (mostly, but not necessarily all inclusive), which explains the reason the Smart and Fiat 500s sell so well here.tryphon said:How many 200s are selling internationally? Not many,,,,,
The market for cars is not just the US: it's time for pepole who are used to the "old ways" to understand that in orde3r to survive and thrive in the future Chrysler must produce cars for world markets and not just for the US. VW and Toyota are doing it and the new FIAT/Chrysler is at least trying to become a world maker of quality cars.
You are ignoring the fact that VW. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford and many other companies have cars that are marketed world wide (with some local adaptations to meet local requirements). They share a platform and many components and are true world cars. Chrysler is bringing its cars to the same level, as necessary to survive and compete with these other companies. People who ignore reality and current market trends are what brought Chrysler to bankruptcy. Your disdain of FIAT does not void the fact that manufacturers need to share platforms across models marketed world-wide in order to survive.dana44 said:Yeah, how true. Now, go out and see if you can buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, made for the United States and Canada in the rest of the world. Bet the only way you will find one is if it was a foreigner that took it over there. In other words, if what you say is correct, there woudn't be a problem with foreign designs being sold here in the USA and Canada (mostly, but not necessarily all inclusive), which explains the reason the Smart and Fiat 500s sell so well here.
Norm is right, and I already said, I won't be purchasing any Mopar after 2008 myself because it's just a name to me. I remain here because I still have an opinion and still breathe Mopar and can be like one of those old guys that still says Plymouth rules! If Fiat/Lancia/Alfa platforms were so great they never would have left, and if they did make major improvements in them, well, they would have been able to enter the market here without having a car company be given to them to do it.
Because before 2008 all the platforms/engines etc were Chryslers? What a ridiculous statement. I know the future is a scary place for some of you, and its too bad you'll be left of it, not sure you'll be missed though.dana44 said:Yeah, how true. Now, go out and see if you can buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, made for the United States and Canada in the rest of the world. Bet the only way you will find one is if it was a foreigner that took it over there. In other words, if what you say is correct, there woudn't be a problem with foreign designs being sold here in the USA and Canada (mostly, but not necessarily all inclusive), which explains the reason the Smart and Fiat 500s sell so well here.
Norm is right, and I already said, I won't be purchasing any Mopar after 2008 myself because it's just a name to me. I remain here because I still have an opinion and still breathe Mopar and can be like one of those old guys that still says Plymouth rules! If Fiat/Lancia/Alfa platforms were so great they never would have left, and if they did make major improvements in them, well, they would have been able to enter the market here without having a car company be given to them to do it.
There is no "disdain" of Fiat, just a difference in perception. Your perception is that a "true" world car is an improvement, my perception is that it's a demotion. American cars were traditionally RWD, solid and dependable. They had a ride designed for comfort.tryphon said:You are ignoring the fact that VW. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Ford and many other companies have cars that are marketed world wide (with some local adaptations to meet local requirements). They share a platform and many components and are true world cars. Chrysler is bringing its cars to the same level, as necessary to survive and compete with these other companies. People who ignore reality and current market trends are what brought Chrysler to bankruptcy. Your disdain of FIAT does not void the fact that manufacturers need to share platforms across models marketed world-wide in order to survive.
Come on, tone it down. We can have a discussion without resorting to personal attacks.JRS200x said:Because before 2008 all the platforms/engines etc were Chryslers? What a ridiculous statement. I know the future is a scary place for some of you, and its too bad you'll be left of it, not sure you'll be missed though.
Yes. 100 percent.JRS200x said:It was/is a ridiculous statement. He is saying that he cannot buy a MOPAR after 2008 because its no longer MOPAR when before they were Mercedes platforms, or Mitsubishi engines and/or platforms etc etc. The last true full MOPAR product was a loooonnng time ago. The world changes, the industry changes, but it all strikes me as xenophobia from a lot of people on here...
That was toning it down...?JRS200x said:It was/is a ridiculous statement. He is saying that he cannot buy a MOPAR after 2008 because its no longer MOPAR when before they were Mercedes platforms, or Mitsubishi engines and/or platforms etc etc. The last true full MOPAR product was a loooonnng time ago. The world changes, the industry changes, but it all strikes me as xenophobia from a lot of people on here...
There are some who sit quietly, while crimes are being committed and others who take action...CarsandGuitars said:Yes. 100 percent.
Also worth noting that many of the folks that subscribe to this way of thinking tend to yell loudest here.
Unfortunately, even that comment is of a mindset of nearly thirty years ago. I'm not trying to poke at you, but looking at the market, import cars are dependable, they are quiet, and they are comfortable. I think you are missing that the desires of the appliance consumers have shifted from the "traditional" way of things in the last fifteen to twenty years and that has many of the "traditional" folks standing on the corner shaking their heads.MoparNorm said:There is no "disdain" of Fiat, just a difference in perception. Your perception is that a "true" world car is an improvement, my perception is that it's a demotion. American cars were traditionally RWD, solid and dependable. They had a ride designed for comfort.
Imports were less than solid, less than dependable, but small light and sporty. Perhaps a bit more fun to drive, but not as comfortable, not as quiet.