[Allpar News System]

Chrysler revealed the 2997 cc version of its Pentastar V6 engine in China, where it will power the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Wrangler, with other vehicles presumably on the list to use the new engine later. Just-Auto revealed that, as Allpar wrote earlier, 3.0 production has been going on for some time, starting on July 3. The engine is made in Trenton, Michigan.

The new engine is rated at 230 horsepower at 6,350rpm, with peak torque of 210 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm. The 3.2, in comparison, 271 hp and 239 lb-ft. The primary purpose of the 3.0 liter V6 is to avoid displacement taxes; in the Europe Union and China, where oil supplies are limited for various reasons including lack of domestic production, vehicles with engines of 3.0 liters and more are penalized with higher taxes. Thus, the new variant was designed to be 2.997 liters, falling below the cutoff...

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[Mike V.]

Fascinating. I see this engine being huge in Europe and China.

Mike

 

[jimboy]

I don't know if the new '200' or Flavia will get the 3.2 or the 3.0 liter? Would they drop the 3.0 into the Lancia and give the Chrysler a 3.2?

 

[dak4x4]

Exporting a USA made engine to China. :thumbsup:

 

[TripleT]

I don't think any of the engines will be made in Guangzhou? Think just assembly. Of course Wrangler and GC all entirely imported and tax is very high.

 

[JoshMHam]

I don't know if the new '200' or Flavia will get the 3.2 or the 3.0 liter? Would they drop the 3.0 into the Lancia and give the Chrysler a 3.2?

I would guess that you will only see the 3.0L in countries that place a tax on engines being larger than 3.0L. The US will stick with the 3.2L and 3.6L engines.

 

[Cornupenuria]

Have the horsepower and torque curves for the three different displacements of the Pentastar been published, together? With the horsepower peak at 6350 rpm and the torque peak at 4400 rpm full-throttle acceleration with 8-speed, 9-speed, or CVT will keep the 3.0L wound up in the heavier vehicles the way the 2.4L engines are wound up in the Compass and Patriot.

 

[Bran]

Fascinating. I see this engine being huge in Europe and China.

Mike

It will do fine in China where there is no 3.0 V6 diesel. But in Europe it'll go against 3.0 V6 diesel with much more torque down low.

German pricing:
2014 Laredo 3.0 diesel 190 HP, 325 ft lb - 45,000 euros
2014 Laredo 3.6 pentastar 286 HP, 260 ft lb - 46,500 euros

2014 Limited 3.0 diesel 250 HP, 420 ft lb - 52,900 euros
2014 Limited 3.6 pentastar 286 HP, 260 ft lb - 50,900 euros
http://jeep.de/download/pdf/2013051669_JE_EG_Preisliste_Grand_Cherokee.pdf

I don't know how much they can cut the price for the 3.0 V6 Pentastar against the 3.6, but 210 ft lb is really bad for such a heavy vehicle. And IIRC, in Germany, for the month of May or June, there were no gasoline Grand Cherokees sold.

 

[guyverfanboy]

It will do fine in China where there is no 3.0 V6 diesel. But in Europe it'll go against 3.0 V6 diesel with much more torque down low.
German pricing:
2014 Laredo 3.0 diesel 190 HP, 325 ft lb - 45,000 euros
2014 Laredo 3.6 pentastar 286 HP, 260 ft lb - 46,500 euros

2014 Limited 3.0 diesel 250 HP, 420 ft lb - 52,900 euros
2014 Limited 3.6 pentastar 286 HP, 260 ft lb - 50,900 euros
http://jeep.de/download/pdf/2013051669_JE_EG_Preisliste_Grand_Cherokee.pdf

I don't know how much they can cut the price for the 3.0 V6 Pentastar against the 3.6, but 210 ft lb is really bad for such a heavy vehicle. And IIRC, in Germany, for the month of May or June, there were no gasoline Grand Cherokees sold.

Wow. Considering that gas is higher than diesel in Europe, I really shouldn't be surprised by this, but no gasoline versions sold?!

 

[srt4evah]

Is the 3.0 Pentastar missing some key tech that the 3.2 and 3.6 offer? Surprising how low the power output is, there's got to be more to it than just displacement. The 0.2L advantage in the 3.2L Pentastar has to have more going for it in order to provide 41hp and 29lb/ft of torque over the 3.0L.

So the Pentastar lineup looks like this:
3.0L = 230hp/210tq
3.2L = 271hp/239tq
3.6L = 305hp/269tq (in best configuration available)

 

[BASONE88]

Is the 3.0 Pentastar missing some key tech that the 3.2 and 3.6 offer? Surprising how low the power output is, there's got to be more to it than just displacement. The 0.2L advantage in the 3.2L Pentastar has to have more going for it in order to provide 41hp and 29lb/ft of torque over the 3.0L.

So the Pentastar lineup looks like this:
3.0L = 230hp/210tq
3.2L = 271hp/239tq
3.6L = 305hp/269tq (in best configuration available)

Isn't the 3.0 twin turboed for the Ghibli?..and it's going to produce something like 400hp?

 

[Mike V.]

Exporting a USA made engine to China. :thumbsup:

That really is awesome, right?

Mike

It will do fine in China where there is no 3.0 V6 diesel. But in Europe it'll go against 3.0 V6 diesel with much more torque down low.
German pricing:
2014 Laredo 3.0 diesel 190 HP, 325 ft lb - 45,000 euros
2014 Laredo 3.6 pentastar 286 HP, 260 ft lb - 46,500 euros

2014 Limited 3.0 diesel 250 HP, 420 ft lb - 52,900 euros
2014 Limited 3.6 pentastar 286 HP, 260 ft lb - 50,900 euros
http://jeep.de/download/pdf/2013051669_JE_EG_Preisliste_Grand_Cherokee.pdf

I don't know how much they can cut the price for the 3.0 V6 Pentastar against the 3.6, but 210 ft lb is really bad for such a heavy vehicle. And IIRC, in Germany, for the month of May or June, there were no gasoline Grand Cherokees sold.

I think there is more to the story that includes taxation. Larger displacement engines get taxed differently in Europe. While diesel is great and I wish we had more of it here, there is still a huge gasoline market in Europe.

Mike

 

[TripleT]

Isn't the 3.0 twin turboed for the Ghibli?..and it's going to produce something like 400hp?

Thought it was 450

 

[Bran]

I think there is more to the story that includes taxation. Larger displacement engines get taxed differently in Europe. While diesel is great and I wish we had more of it here, there is still a huge gasoline market in Europe.

Mike

Agree, but this 3.0 desperately needs DI and at least one turbo (for a big and heavy 4x4 application). I think it would be acceptable in the Euro Lancia Thema (Chrysler 300) with an 8 speed, although a 2.0 turbo would be better.

edit:
I've just checked the German sales reports, and the bigger the car, the bigger is diesel engine sales percentage. I was wrong for the May Grand Cherokee sales, as there were 267 diesel GC sold, and 20 gasoline.

Lancia Thema (300) and competitors (YTD 2013 diesel engine percentage):
Audi A6 89.5%
BMW 5 series 94%
Jaguar XF 95%
Lancia Thema 79.2%
Mercedes E-class 78.1%

Grand Cherokee and competitors (YTD 2013 diesel engine percentage):
Audi Q7 99%
BMW X5 97.4%
Jeep GC 89.4%
RR Sport 97%
Merc ML 89.8%
Mitsu Pajero 100%
Nissan Pathfinder 100%
Porsche Cayenne 79.5%
Toyota Land Cruiser 99.6%
Volvo XC90 99.8%
Porsche Touareg 98.1%
http://www.kfz-betrieb.vogel.de/pkw-neuzulassungen/

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Am I correct that displacements larger than 3.0 have higher annual registration fees?

 

[TripleT]

Am I correct that displacements larger than 3.0 have higher annual registration fees?

In China? IDK I will have to do some investigation.

I can not imagine that someone that can afford a Wrangler or GC and worry about the registration fee the big hit is the nearly 100% importation tariff. I wonder if that is scaled to displacement.

I Europe it depends on the country. In Italy over a certain displacement and HP you need a special license.

 

[superduckie5000]

All "Old V-6's are Now Gone!

From Automotive News:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130830/OEM01/130839987/chrysler-retires-an-old-engine-all-v-6s-now-are-pentastars&cciid=email-autonews-daily&r=3771D6126356D8M#axzz2dUQ1jmsw

A Quote: " Chrysler began production of the Pentastar engine family in March 2010. It's now used in 16 models in 11 segments."

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130830/OEM01/130839987/chrysler-retires-an-old-engine;-all-v-6s-now-are-pentastars#ixzz2dUR2ABty
Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook

I Saw the 1st of the 3.0L's go down the Assy. Line at Trenton Before I Left at the End of March.

TMD

 

[ShadowRider]

All "Old V-6's are Now Gone!

From Automotive News:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130830/OEM01/130839987/chrysler-retires-an-old-engine-all-v-6s-now-are-pentastars&cciid=email-autonews-daily&r=3771D6126356D8M#axzz2dUQ1jmsw

A Quote: " Chrysler began production of the Pentastar engine family in March 2010. It's now used in 16 models in 11 segments."

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130830/OEM01/130839987/chrysler-retires-an-old-engine;-all-v-6s-now-are-pentastars#ixzz2dUR2ABty
Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook

I Saw the 1st of the 3.0L's go down the Assy. Line at Trenton Before I Left at the End of March.

TMD

So which old V6 engine did this replace since there are no old V6 engines?

 

[Mike V.]

Am I correct that displacements larger than 3.0 have higher annual registration fees?

Yes sir, that's why I made the comments above.

Mike

Agree, but this 3.0 desperately needs DI and at least one turbo (for a big and heavy 4x4 application). I think it would be acceptable in the Euro Lancia Thema (Chrysler 300) with an 8 speed, although a 2.0 turbo would be better.

What "big and heavy 4x4"?

The application is described... It doesn't need DI or a turbo to do what it needs to do. If the consumer wants a diesel in Europe, Chrysler already offers that.

Mike

 

[M.O.D.]

Isn't the 3.0 twin turboed for the Ghibli?..and it's going to produce something like 400hp?

Although the Maserati's engine block clearly is a pentastar derivative, the 3.0 Maserati and the 3.0 Pentastar are not the same engine.

to my knowledge, very little, if any, componentry is shared. Even the blocks are modified and different p/#s, and they come off different assembly lines.

Should Chrysler do a turboed 3.0 (which I very much doubt they would) it would probably produce somewhat lower output. But why should they do it, duplicating engineering money, and for what applications?

Euro cars (Maserati+Alfa) will use the Maser's, China cars will do with the normally aspirated 3.0 Pentastar, US cars don't need the 3.0 at all. The only potential future 3.0 Pentastar turbo application which could make sense would/could be assembled in China for GC and 300 to be sold locally, assuming there is a plan to assemble either vehicle in China at some point, or even the pentastar. But, again, I doubt it.