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Chrysler has to be carefull not to show up the Italians like they did the Germans.Take the Viper.The V10 can possibly produce more power than Ferrari's V12.
Hopefully Ferrari realizes that the Americas have engineers that are world class and that they take a back seat to know one.
 

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Or Ferrari will work with Chrysler on the V10 and it will end up better than it would have been if only one of the two groups was doing it.

Though the behavior of Ferrari people at today's race makes one wonder, those are drivers and not engineers.
 

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What do you mean by behaviour? Just curious.
 

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Well, goes to show the bottom ends are the strong element of the Pentastar engine, but like I have always said, the power is in the heads (flow) of the engine to make it reliable. This means, they can get the 410hp out of 3 liters of engine besides just adding boost. Kind of also explains why 30-50 engines a day, takes time to make a set of heads flow, even if they are CNC machined, takes time to chuck them into the machines, index them properly, and check them.
 
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Or Ferrari will work with Chrysler on the V10 and it will end up better than it would have been if only one of the two groups was doing it.


I also hope they will work together,if they do there will be no stopping them.
Well, goes to show the bottom ends are the strong element of the Pentastar engine, but like I have always said, the power is in the heads (flow) of the engine to make it reliable. This means, they can get the 410hp out of 3 liters of engine besides just adding boost. Kind of also explains why 30-50 engines a day, takes time to make a set of heads flow, even if they are CNC machined, takes time to chuck them into the machines, index them properly, and check them.
Normally aspirated power is the proof of superior engineering.
 

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Different methods for different end results.

Supercharging the V6 in Ghibli presumaby means they can shrink the size of the engine bay and cut weight that way.

Using a supercharged V6 instead of a V8 or a bigger v6 means you can get a better front-rear weight balance.
 

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hemirunner426 said:
Normally aspirated power is the proof of superior engineering.
Yes, but not necessarily. Anyone can boost an engine to get the numbers you want, it takes a good strong bottom end to make it last. I recall talk about trying to turbo charge the 3.3/3.8 and having them blow bottom ends out. At the same time, if you can keep the bottom end from blowing out, a good set of heads will make a very powerful engine worth noting. I recall the TIII engine being a Maserati design, right?
 

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dana44 said:
Yes, but not necessarily. Anyone can boost an engine to get the numbers you want, it takes a good strong bottom end to make it last. I recall talk about trying to turbo charge the 3.3/3.8 and having them blow bottom ends out. At the same time, if you can keep the bottom end from blowing out, a good set of heads will make a very powerful engine worth noting. I recall the TIII engine being a Maserati design, right?
I think the 3.3's got a bad rep as the only one that Chrysler turbo'd blew a rod early in their test but there are a few in the Turbo Mopar clan that have had good sucess running turbos on them.

It's almost hard to believe but the T-III and the Maserati DOHC 16 valve engines are totally different!! Both are based on the Chryser 2.2 but the heads are completely different and the Maserati even used a fully counter weighted crank. The Maserati even used a special transmission but any 2.2/2.5 trans will fit either block and either of the heads will fit any 2.2/2.5 Chrysler block.

Thanks
Randy
 

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I knew it!!! :scared:

Also, Ferrari can probably do a thing or two with the Viper engine. I still find it a bit ironic that Lamborghini helped a bit with the original Viper engine.
 

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Ferrari can certainly help Viper V10 with downsizing and still producing the same amount of horsepower and maybe the same torque, either natural or forced induction..

I, for one, would like to see some advance techs from Ferrari being implemented into Viper's engine.
 

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The Viper engine had gone pretty far on its own thanks to Chrysler and its partners. I think they are doing fine in their own.

Mike
 

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Another set of eyes often helps, that's all I meant by my earlier comment.

Yes, the Chrysler 16 valve 2.2 and the Maserati were totally different. I believe the Chrysler was far more powerful but the Maserati was probably far more reliable. The Maserati version was only used in the TC. The Chrysler was used in Spirit R/T, Daytona R/T, and in Mexico, LeBaron R/T if I remember correctly. It produced around 224 hp (?) and propelled the five-passenger Spirit R/T from 0- to 60 in 5.8 seconds, an incredible acceleration for 1991.
 

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RVC said:
What do you mean by behaviour? Just curious.
At The ALMS Monterrey race, this past weekend, at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, a 458 nearly took out the #91 Viper wholly and completely. Fahrnbacher wisely chose to give way, and save both cars major damage. Would have been diastrous weeks before LeMans. THere were also a couple other "rubs" between the two. I would guess it was more aggressive driving than anything else. It didn't look at all like it was a Ferrari vs SRT thing. The most aggressive move on the day was when a Toyota (P1) punted the Leading Muscle Milk car into the sand in turn 3 near the end of the race (60 second penalty). Just good hard racing, that jsut ahpened to be between a Vipe' and a 458. At Long beach a few weeks ago, it was a Team Falken 911 unsuccessfully blindside outbraking the #93 car.
 

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Muther said:
At The ALMS Monterrey race, this past weekend, at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, a 458 nearly took out the #91 Viper wholly and completely. Fahrnbacher wisely chose to give way, and save both cars major damage. Would have been diastrous weeks before LeMans. THere were also a couple other "rubs" between the two. I would guess it was more aggressive driving than anything else. It didn't look at all like it was a Ferrari vs SRT thing. The most aggressive move on the day was when a Toyota (P1) punted the Leading Muscle Milk car into the sand in turn 3 near the end of the race (60 second penalty). Just good hard racing, that jsut ahpened to be between a Vipe' and a 458. At Long beach a few weeks ago, it was a Team Falken 911 unsuccessfully blindside outbraking the #93 car.
Thanks! I thought Dave was talking about the F1 race, and since Ferrari there did brilliantly I couldn't understand what the behavioural issue could have been ;)
 

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From Motortrend


2014 viper ACR might be neutered for Ferrari's sake.The Viper is not allowed to exceed the power-to-weight ratio of the F12 Berlinetta sitting at 5.2 pounds per horsepower.Speculation is that the Viper's V10 can make more horsepower than the Ferrari's V12.
 

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hemirunner426 said:
From Motortrend


2014 viper ACR might be neutered for Ferrari's sake.The Viper is not allowed to exceed the power-to-weight ratio of the F12 Berlinetta sitting at 5.2 pounds per horsepower.Speculation is that the Viper's V10 can make more horsepower than the Ferrari's V12.
It doesn't make much sense IMO, afterall Ferrari is not so focused on power, it is more about driving dynamics.
I mean people don't buy ferraris to drag race them.
 

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Sadly, Chrysler gets no credit for its role in either engine or infotainment development in Motor Trend's first drive of the new V6 Quattroporte, although the Chrysler 300 is referred to as "that other Fiat product." I hadn't realized that Maserati employed Uconnect (branded as "Maserati Touch Control"), but the graphics were unmistakable in the Motor Trend photographs.
 

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Lots of magazines print a lot of stuff that should never have seen print. MT is a very bad offender. The same magazine (MT) said previously, that Marchionne said that the two (House of Ralph, House of Enzo) would not be artificially limited. Both would compete on their own terms. So this is them contradicting themselves... again. I believe very little of what I reed as news in MT. Their comparisons are pretty good, their trip pieces are excellent. I generally find Road and Track more to my liking (not that they are any better).

As far as Mopar goes I believe lots and lots more what I read here. (and now Mopar means Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Iveco, Fiat Industrial, Case-IH, and Ford Tractor... er... I mean New Holland, did I miss any?)
 

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hemirunner426 said:
From Motortrend
2014 viper ACR might be neutered for Ferrari's sake.The Viper is not allowed to exceed the power-to-weight ratio of the F12 Berlinetta sitting at 5.2 pounds per horsepower.Speculation is that the Viper's V10 can make more horsepower than the Ferrari's V12.
Really? You are quoting that endless pit of reputable (dis)information that is MotorTrend?
The thought of asking SRT to limit the Viper engine's performance wouldn't even cross the mind of anyone at Ferrari. It's not considered competition, NOT because they think it isn't a good car, but simply because it goes after a completely different type of customer. If you are in the market for a sledgehammer muscle car, would you cross shop the Viper with a Ferrari 458 or an F12?
More to the point; you can get a corvette for much less than the price of a 458, and have similar performance. Do you see Ferrari worrying about people not buying their cars? Not really...

You don't have to believe me; Marchionne himself said in the past that nobody would be limited in their development, and IIRC it was actually in direct reference to the Viper. He said something like "if the viper can get the same performance of a $300k Ferrari I think it's a good thing. It will force them to work harder for their money".


svevar said:
Sadly, Chrysler gets no credit for its role in either engine or infotainment development in Motor Trend's first drive of the new V6 Quattroporte, although the Chrysler 300 is referred to as "that other Fiat product." I hadn't realized that Maserati employed Uconnect (branded as "Maserati Touch Control"), but the graphics were unmistakable in the Motor Trend photographs.
I just read the MT piece where they drive the Q4 Quattroporte, and they specifically reference the Pentaster block. I've also read references to the uConnect for both this car and Ferrari's in many publications.

Having said that, the graphics on that uConnect are sadly very similar indeed to the (equally bad) ones in the regular uConnect. I hope the new gen infotainment radios bring an improvement in the looks department.
As it is, it's definitely well below what Maserati's competition offers (graphics wise only; the functionality is miles better IMO).
 
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