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Automated System
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Allpar reader “kdaviper” wrote, “A fifth-generation Viper engine was spotted at Arrow Racing, with a Paxton-style supercharger strapped to it. This could mean that SRT is planning on supercharging the Viper V-10 for production, or that Mopar is developing a bolt-on supercharger kit, or possibly that SRT is working on an engine for a Viper racing car (possibly formula-D?)  It may also mean absolutely nothing.” JRS200x had previously written that Arrow Racing was setting up a supercharger for a new model of the SRT (née Dodge) Viper. Both sources have been reliable in past predictions, though any project under development is subject to change.

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Plymouth Makes It
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8L supercharged! If true it will put the Viper in a lofty place, getting the power to the ground will be interesting.
 

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They need to make room for the Hellcat, no? :)
 

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To be absolutely honest, I don't like the idea of "cheating" to get more power. I would rather see a NA Hyper-Viper versus a supercharged Hyper-Viper. IMO, not going to happen, just a feeling. Uncork the big V10 and see what falls out - 700+, relatively easy. To me, the finest cars ever built (F40 notwithstanding) are powered by a honest-to-goodness naturally engine. No boost please.
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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dakrt99 said:
To be absolutely honest, I don't like the idea of "cheating" to get more power. I would rather see a NA Hyper-Viper versus a supercharged Hyper-Viper. IMO, not going to happen, just a feeling. Uncork the big V10 and see what falls out - 700+, relatively easy. To me, the finest cars ever built (F40 notwithstanding) are powered by a honest-to-goodness naturally engine. No boost please.
You are ignoring rules and regulations. It's not "relatively easy".

Mike
 

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Mike V. said:
You are ignoring rules and regulations. It's not "relatively easy".

Mike
That is why relatively is in parentheses. I am quite aware of the regulations. I've been a member since 2005, I know the routine. I knew someone was going to lecture me about that, jeez. Relatively was in parentheses, I made it clear.
 

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Say no to kool-aid
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dakrt99 said:
That is why relatively is in parentheses. I am quite aware of the regulations. I've been a member since 2005, I know the routine. I knew someone was going to lecture me about that, jeez. Relatively was in parentheses, I made it clear.
He quoted your "relatively easy" in it's entirety. As if to say it isn't easy at all. Because it's not even relatively easy. It's already an expensive car, you want to know what they came up with? 640. It's likely fair to say that their darn close to what would be a reasonable cap accounting for regulations and durability and all of the above. Squeezing out another 60 could be done, but at what expense - to what pay off?

Is a supercharger cheating? Maybe, but then again, that's kind of the point. The Viper is expensive, but relative to other super cars it's cheap, if they want to keep it that way, they can't get carried away with expensive revisions to hit those magic numbers with little pay off. A supercharger would allow them to cross into the 700s at a far more reasonable cost.

That said, I too like NA engines, and appreciate that Chrysler as a whole has avoided going GM / Ford on us. They have a bunch of reasonably powerful and fuel efficient naturally aspirated engines, and I like that. The Viper in particular is special because it's such a beast with out relying on the superchargers.
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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dakrt99 said:
That is why relatively is in parentheses. I am quite aware of the regulations. I've been a member since 2005, I know the routine. I knew someone was going to lecture me about that, jeez. Relatively was in parentheses, I made it clear.
If I wanted to give you a lecture, I would haved channeled my inner Mr. Sheaves.

Thanks Bumonbox... You handled that very well.

Mike
 

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dakrt99 said:
To be absolutely honest, I don't like the idea of "cheating" to get more power. I would rather see a NA Hyper-Viper versus a supercharged Hyper-Viper. IMO, not going to happen, just a feeling. Uncork the big V10 and see what falls out - 700+, relatively easy. To me, the finest cars ever built (F40 notwithstanding) are powered by a honest-to-goodness naturally engine. No boost please.
Cheating? What's cheating about using the latest and greatest science and technology to create an incredible machine? Was the Model T "cheating" when it beat out the horse and buggy as a mode of transportation? Of course not!

Supercharging is an excellent way to go for the SRT Viper. No spooling lag whatsoever. Little weight. Sure, it sucks up hp, but it creates even more than it uses.

With that said, while I don't think creating a 700+ hp engine is easy by any standards, I do agree that this engine can use a dose of refinement. While it does boast the highest torque of a NA engine, some modernization like Direct Injection can pull its hp figure closer to 700.

For comparison, let's look at the hp per liter ratios for some performance engines:

SRT Viper: 76.2 hp/L
Mopar V10 crate engine: 95.2 hp/L (Mopar's 800 hp version of the NA Viper engine for drag racers)
Corvette C6 ZR1: 102.9 hp/L (supercharged)
Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG: 176.5 hp/L (turbocharged)
Shelby 1000: 206.9 hp/L (supercharged)

There's clearly room for improvement.
 

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Let me at it. I can easily pull another 60hp out of the heads and it woudn't require any computer alteration at all.
 

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Though I prefer NA engines to any type of boosted or forced induction engines, horsepower is horsepower. NA just sounds better to me. I don't like the SC whoosh, or the turbo sound. I like the sound of NA engines. Though, I'll admit, the tappet tappeta of a wastegate dumping is quite cool to hear.

THe hard part, I am swag'ing, would be getting it to meet warranty. 700+hp is a loooooooot of juice. Its gotta be hard on rods, pins, pistons and such.
 

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Muther said:
Though I prefer NA engines to any type of boosted or forced induction engines, horsepower is horsepower. NA just sounds better to me. I don't like the SC whoosh, or the turbo sound. I like the sound of NA engines. Though, I'll admit, the tappet tappeta of a wastegate dumping is quite cool to hear.

THe hard part, I am swag'ing, would be getting it to meet warranty. 700+hp is a loooooooot of juice. Its gotta be hard on rods, pins, pistons and such.
The Gen V engine comes with forged internals already. probably not the kind you'd see in one of the crazy 1000+ hp Vipers out there, but from what I hear, it will handle a little boost pretty well.
 

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kdaviper said:
The Gen V engine comes with forged internals already. probably not the kind you'd see in one of the crazy 1000+ hp Vipers out there, but from what I hear, it will handle a little boost pretty well.
Agreed.

I remember hearing that the Viper's powertrain was designed with aftermarket modifications in mind.

From Car and Driver: "New forged-aluminum Mahle pistons will take the heat of aftermarket power adders better than the old cast pieces, and revisions to the block and the head gaskets help reduce temperatures at the rear cylinders, which have been known to get hotter than the rest of the holes."
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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dana44 said:
Let me at it. I can easily pull another 60hp out of the heads and it woudn't require any computer alteration at all.
Maybe so, but would it pass emissions? Is it worth the cost of admission?

Sure you may be able to get more HP out of it, but thinner walls in the ports could effect longevity of the head.

It's easy to forget there is a fine line that must be followed.

Mike
 

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No, it wouldn't Mike. Supercharging is the best and smartest route for them. The early power figures are ridiculous... they will tone them down though.
 

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If there was a production supercharged version, I'd suspect they'd "tame" the engine down a bit. They'd probably use a more mild cam with VVT tweaks to fatten up the power curve down low, and then they'd bring the power backup with a low-boost setup. I'd suspect 700HP at the most really. The most important thing though is that this would increase the power "under the curve" so to speak, which is where the Viper lacks in comparison to its forced-induction rivals.

I'd be very surprised if they used centrifugal supercharger though. They have very objectionable gear-train noise - even on the helical-cut versions.
 

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Eaton is the most likely source for a supercharger, so I'd look at their models. Eaton has a long history and very closely established relationship with Fiat and Chrylser (with both companies, before and after 2009), and Eaton supplies a bunch of (if not the majority of) the world's OEM superchargers.

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Automotive/RootsSuperchargers/PCT_223743

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Automotive/AutomotiveAftermarket/Superchargers/PCT_340160

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Automotive/index.htm
 

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Mike V. said:
Maybe so, but would it pass emissions? Is it worth the cost of admission?

Sure you may be able to get more HP out of it, but thinner walls in the ports could effect longevity of the head.

It's easy to forget there is a fine line that must be followed.

Mike
MIke, it will smog, and cleaner than before, and I will put good money on the fact the ports themselves are in pretty good shape as far as port match, but like I said, I can easily pull the 60hp out of the heads with a little work, especially when I pulled 75hp out of a nasty 4.9 Cadillac engine, and not only did it smog cleaner than any previous time in history, but it also ran cooler in traffic and had a major increase in mileage. Now, with this engine and the fact I haven't seen the new head itself, going from the appearance of the old head, yeah, I know for a fact I can get that little bit everyone is asking for real quickly.
 

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Mopar-nac The Moderator
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dana44 said:
MIke, it will smog, and cleaner than before, and I will put good money on the fact the ports themselves are in pretty good shape as far as port match, but like I said, I can easily pull the 60hp out of the heads with a little work, especially when I pulled 75hp out of a nasty 4.9 Cadillac engine, and not only did it smog cleaner than any previous time in history, but it also ran cooler in traffic and had a major increase in mileage. Now, with this engine and the fact I haven't seen the new head itself, going from the appearance of the old head, yeah, I know for a fact I can get that little bit everyone is asking for real quickly.
Who is going to pay for all the R&D work and testing? We can't just give you a set of heads and say go to town simply on a word of mouth guarantee.

Mike

JRS200x said:
No, it wouldn't Mike. Supercharging is the best and smartest route for them. The early power figures are ridiculous... they will tone them down though.
That's my point actually, supercharging or turbo charging could be the best bang for the buck for SRT. Either way, there is tons of R&D costs, emissions testing costs, crash testing, durability testing costs, warranty determination, lawyers, and assembly line changes a that all much be addressed. It all adds up!

I know you realize this... My point is, no matter what they do, it isn't "relatively easy" to make any changes to the existing engine or existing car.

I'm not surprised if they choose a supercharger at all for this application.

Mike
 
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