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Anyone will be happy with a Dodge Dart Coupe?

24K views 100 replies 21 participants last post by  Dave Z 
#1 ·
I SAY YESSS!!!, & You?
 
#5 ·
They are at least two years too late. Chevy has already made two concepts and even said they are looking for a $20,000 price range. The retro styled red car is the Code 130R the Cruze based silver is Tru 140S.

Subaru is coming out with a RWD coupe this year... better get on it Dodge :flashred:
 
#6 ·
They are at least two years too late. Chevy has already made two concepts and even said they are looking for a $20,000 price range. The retro styled red car is the Code 130R the Cruze based silver is Tru 140S.

Subaru is coming out with a RWD coupe this year... better get on it Dodge :flashred:
That vehicle has been in development since about 08 or 09. Dodge probably doesn't have anything like that Subaru/Toyota/Scion coming out as far as we know. But maybe an SRT4 Dart coupe renamed the Demon could do the same thing ;)
 
#8 ·
The Subaru is a totally new design, if Dodge made a cheap coupe it would be based off the Dart, I would think that would cut some time off. I would be happy maybe 2 full size doors in front and 1/2 size doors in the back, I would be happy with that.
But then everyone would call it an RX-8 wannabe. The 1/2 rear doors are a great idea in my opinion, but still.
 
#12 ·
They are at least two years too late. Chevy has already made two concepts and even said they are looking for a $20,000 price range. The retro styled red car is the Code 130R the Cruze based silver is Tru 140S.
Too late for what? Chevy didn't bother to bring a 2-door Cruze to the showrooms here - must be a reason. Those concepts are just that - I don't see production intent as they sit, but I do see potential for the next re-design of the Cruze. The 140S will have a better chance once people forget that it looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse. ;) And I won't be surprised if the red one grows a set of rear doors.

Subaru's new BRZ/Scion's new FR-S are niche players at best. Not saying they won't be good cars, but saying that Dodge needs to hurry and up follow another automaker into a niche just because doesn't make much sense to me. Now, if they can do so profitably where the bits and pieces are shared with other models, great. I'm all for gravy sales in that regard. Then again, niche and low-volume might be better served by an Alfa Romeo model.
 
#17 ·
Right. The old Challenger was practically the last in the race. New Challenger, that's a "maybe" since Mustang was already there and Camaro was already announced. Dart is really just another entry into a crowded segment, it's a good one but not really a "first" as far as I can tell. Viper, minivan I'll grant you; Journey I won't.

Other "firsts" I'd credit: Valiant (first major American compact designed to be one -- though really AMC's deserve that credit), Barracuda, Airflow, 1924 Chrysler...
 
#19 ·
Too late for what? Chevy didn't bother to bring a 2-door Cruze to the showrooms here - must be a reason. Those concepts are just that - I don't see production intent as they sit, but I do see potential for the next re-design of the Cruze. The 140S will have a better chance once people forget that it looks like a Mitsubishi Eclipse. ;) And I won't be surprised if the red one grows a set of rear doors.

Subaru's new BRZ/Scion's new FR-S are niche players at best. Not saying they won't be good cars, but saying that Dodge needs to hurry and up follow another automaker into a niche just because doesn't make much sense to me. Now, if they can do so profitably where the bits and pieces are shared with other models, great. I'm all for gravy sales in that regard. Then again, niche and low-volume might be better served by an Alfa Romeo model.
Though I understand that BRZ pre-orders are said to be 4x their best projections.

Hyundai just announced an Elantra coupe.

There is a market here, just as there was always a market for a Mopar compact. It was just ignored.

After all, you can't sell to a car that doesn't exist.
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
Automotive News said:
Subaru's BRZ sport coupe goes on sale April 20, but only about 500 units will be available each month for the U.S. market.

That means that some of Subaru's 620 U.S. dealers won't have a BRZ at launch and most will get only one car a month.

It is unlikely the United States will receive more than about 6,000 of the rear-wheel-drive coupes a year even in a full-year of production, said Michael McHale, Subaru of America's director of corporate communications.

McHale said Subaru of America asked for only 6,000 annually. He said the U.S. sales arm made a conservative request because little was known about the car during most of its joint development with Toyota.

Earlier this year, Scion boss Jack Hollis said his brand expects to sell 10,000 to 15,000 units of the FR-S in 2012.

Full article: http://www.autonews.com/article/20120402/OEM01/304029991#ixzz1qwAYNwuh
I've heard a lot of talk from the [this word has been banned due to its use as a pointless flame tool]ys of how awesome and great the BRZ/FR-S are going to be (OMG! 2 door coupe! RWD!) - but if Subaru of America only asked for 6000 units for the entire year, and Toyota says 10-15K for the year...seems the automakers don't share the same enthusiasm.

Hyundai themselves stated that they expect the Elantra coupe and GT to only augment Elantra sedan sales - they are selling every Elantra sedan they make here, so by importing coupes and GTs using excess capacity overseas, they can offer them with little effort.

Essentially, you are looking at 1000 or less units per month of these coupes.

If CGLLC had excess capacity to offer a Dart coupe and could do it profitably, great. I don't see it anytime soon.
 
#21 ·
The lack of coupes on the same chassis as sedans from American automakers in the last ten years has made me sad. My first car in 1998 was a '93 Thunderbird because I wanted a large rear-wheel-drive coupe with a V6. I had also considered the facelifted fifth generation Pontiac Grand Prix, but wanted RWD. At the time, Chrysler had no equivalent, as only the trucks and the Viper were RWD, and the Diamondstar coupes didn't appeal either.

What I worry about is that American cars won't be collectible 30 years from now. If you look at what's hot for collectibles now, it's the cars that the collectors of today wanted or had as young people then. That has done well for two-door muscle cars like Challenger, 'cuda, Camaro, and Mustang, and for smaller two-door inexpensive cars like Dart, Valiant, Duster (dad's first car was a "Gold" Duster), Nova, and Falcon. Some large two-door cars are also collectible because young people liked them even if they couldn't afford them. Today, youth are driving or pining for Honda Civics, Acura Integras, Toyota Trecels, Scions, and other imported cars because those cars are the ones that appeal to youth. And those youth, as they grow up, might well continue buying the same brand of car because they've had their youthful vigor in those brands. In my opinion, the American automakers, by not doing a good job marketing to the eighteen year old and not providing basic cars that are affordable to young buyers are probably losing future buyers.

My wife drives an Integra, and even though she's had problems with it, with two radiator failures, a fuel vapor return reverse loop vacuuming problem causing raw fuel to be sucked out of the tank and purged through the charcoal canister vent, suspension bushing problems, hatchback unlatching mechanism problems, and a few others, she's still strongly in favor of another Acura, and probably a much more expensive one, to the point that it's fairly likely to happen. She's willing to consider other cars, like the Dart, if it's much cheaper and still has all of the features she wants.

We'll have to see.
 
#22 ·
TWX is on the right path. You bet your sweet monkey @#$ Id go in for a Dart coupe --in SRT trim, preferably awd. A 5-door hatch would be great, but sedans just suck in every way. Thats my opinion of course, but lets look at the facts:

Coupes look great, in fact a long hood/short deck 2-door is THE face of a true performance car. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Simplest is best, theyre lighter, leaner, stiffer and clean of any unnecessary crap that wieghs down a performance car. We're a smaller segment, but hardcore enthusiasts want a car thats a no-compromise machine. However, utility-wise its not a great choice, since rear seats if they exist at all are a lot tougher to get to and cargo room is minimal to just adequate.

Wagons/hatches give unmatched utility and have that nice clean shooting brake bodystyle. If its a 5-door you get full rear seat access and a ton of cargo room for the size. Youre compromising performance vs a coupe since youre adding weight. More holes in the body shell (doors) mean less rigitity overall so thats bound to affect handling a bit. But to gain that kind of utility you have to give up something. Again its a matter of opinion, but wagons and hatches dont look bad. The majority of rally cars are beefy little hatches, and the added doors dont really screw up the lines too bad at all. Wagons are a bit more utilitarian and can be mom mobiles but not necessarily. A lowered, blacked out Audi A4 Avant on BBS wheels or a SRT-8 Magnum rocking Magnaflows and Torq Thrusts is proof of that.

So whats the point of a sedan? You get marginal gains in practicality over a coupe: Sure now you can taxi around kids or mooching freinds a little easier, but what good is a trunk on a car, really? You can get a couple shoe boxes or groceries back there, but what about furniture or building supplies? See the wagon/hatch. You have a car thats the most bland, boring and uninspiring bodystyle in the world (again, matter of opinion on looks) which is why the manufacturers have been pushing it on us. They all look the same. A 9 year old with a steady hand can pen the bodystyle of any sedan ever made. You have a fraction of the usefulness factor of a wagon/hatch and most of the performance downfalls since theyre longer, heavier, and flimsier. As an econobox, cheap family hauler or a big ole land barge meant to shuttle granny to church a sedan starts to make a little sense but beyond that.....WHY? None of that appeals to an enthusiast.

Trying to sell the Dart as sedan-only is nothing short of retarded. The 2nd gen Neon sold a lot of units, but its universally known as a POS car. Not that they dont last, but they offer nothing in perforance and look for crap. Sure the SRT-4 was fast, but its just a warmed over Neon that got some leftover GT Cruiser engines as a weak attempt to bring in some of the tuner crowd. Park it next to a Cobalt SS and it just looks half-assed. The Dart will be another also-ran if they keep it sedan-only. Theyll manage to sell some, for sure...so did the Neon SRT-4. If Dodge really wants to draw a line in the sand and reel in some young, performance minded buyers that will be Mopar drivers for life, then they need to build a legend. It has to have performance that no Japanese tuner can touch, and it has to have the style to turn heads now while becoming a classic in the future. The Dart SRT-4 needs to become the modern version of the 340 Duster, Chevy II Datsun 240Z, Datsun 510, Mini Cooper, and other respected compacts. And Dodge needs to remember its muscle car roots: 4 door sedan bodystyles werent good enough for the Challenger, Dart Swinger, Demon, or the 'real' Charger....they arent good enough for the SRT-4 either.
 
#23 ·
Agree with lengthening the door in front, and add a little bit more trunk, cut the slope of the rear down a little bit.
 
#24 ·
Please don't misinterpret my words. I don't hate sedans, I just think that there's a missed market for coupes. I just bought a '95 Impala SS, a car that I actually have wanted since I was fourteen years old. At this point in my life, in my early thirties, I probably wouldn't buy a coupe as we're planning on having kids. A coupe was an excellent choice when I was young and dating though, and if I were still single I would still like one. As a married man I already have my +1 passenger, and so if friends ever come with us...
 
#25 ·
Sales of the Toyota Corolla sedan in the US are ten times those of the Toyota Corolla hatch ("Matrix").

Sales of the Toyota Camry sedan in the US were ten times those of the Toyota Camry coupe ("Solara").

I guess Toyota's "retarded" too.

PS> I find "shooting brakes" are often ugly.
 
#26 ·
Coming from a hatch, I will notice the loss of space and usefulness. But as I have a Grand Caravan at my disposal most of the time, I don't see it being a *huge* issue.
 
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