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Anything about the Wagoneers?

37K views 269 replies 40 participants last post by  Erik Latranyi 
#1 ·
Have they been pushed back again, or maybe not ready for testing yet? As what is probably one of the most anticipated upcoming Jeeps outside the truck, is have expected some info by now, other than that it's ram based, and supposed to be super expensive on the top end.
 
#3 ·
Have they been pushed back again, or maybe not ready for testing yet? As what is probably one of the most anticipated upcoming Jeeps outside the truck, is have expected some info by now, other than that it's ram based, and supposed to be super expensive on the top end.
But if they keep pushing it back, FCA will miss out on the SUV bonanza. That makes no sense to...
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#7 ·
While beating Chevy would be nice, it's also meaningless. The question should be what will make more money, the classic DS or a new Wagoneer? I'm not expecting to see the Wagoneer for a few more years if ever at this point. The ship is sailing by and the good economy won't last forever.
 
#9 ·
Agreed. All this talk of what could be coming, what their plans are, what if’s and what nots, and the wonderful margins they may bring, etc. Enough talk, talk is for lovers. They need to actually produce something. Poop or get off the pot already.
 
#13 ·
Some may not like his message.
 
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#19 ·
Just look at the price of the new DT Ram and consider how much more a luxurious interior for an SUV would be.
 
#27 ·
The perception of not being able to produce a vehicle within a reasonable timeframe, therefore missing the window to maximise the vehicles impact on the market is what frustrates me. Nope, it ain't just a simple process to make a new vehicle and I certainly don't want another half baked product. For FCA's sake, I want them to capitalize on an niche market. If I'm this frustrated with the continued product delays, I would imagine the people inside FCA, especially anyone who was around when Chrysler was pretty nimble, are losing their minds with slow progress and reliance on selling cheap old products.

It's about time for FCA to hit the market with a surprise that boosts consumer confidence in the company's ability to make a gotta have product*. I'm sure company morale could use something to rally around as well. That's not obvious on a spreadsheet while selling old Caravans and DS Rams is.

* The Demon was a great moral boost and showed excellent innovation and engineering prowess. That muscle need to be flexed for a whole vehicle, not just an engine/drivetrain.
 
#28 ·
I don't agree but well reasoned. When Chrysler was nimble in the 90s... I am sure that moral was different. What help moral is a healthy company and job security that been poor since Daimler stole the company, and right now is a good as any time since.

I don't hear frustration the way you describe, I here more about people spread to thin, and have trouble finding help in the Detroit metro. Frankly I don't see how with the resources they have how that will pull off all that is planned in the next 3 years. I am sure there are some really stressed out people.

As for the Wagoneer. We know for sure where the capacity is. We know the selling Pickups it taking priority over the implementation of this truck. We know that the plant will need a update also, those 2 things can happen in Parallel. So the best advice is to watch Warren. But be warned several times this model or a Ram or Dodge have been sacrificed to sell more Pickups. Fingers crosses that this doesn't happen again.

The issue is this vehicle can be full developed under a ram that they can keep the look secret right up to the launch.
 
#29 ·
This is beyond slow progress. I personally think the delays are part of the plan. As long as DS continues to sell their balance sheet is much better looking. If Warren doesn't shut down for retooling by spring they will have a hard time keeping that schedule. How long has Toledo been down to retool for Jeep truck? Warren is a much bigger endeavor.
 
#38 ·
Looking for a non-committal yes or no answer from the deep insiders. Are products being delayed or shelved at a greater rate now than they have in the past? I know I still get surprised to learn about past vehicles that were pretty far down the pipline only to be delayed or cancelled last minute. Part of our frustration may be we simply know to much about product development now...

or it's because it's an all out cluster**** getting the product out.:p;)
 
#41 ·
I guess it buys them time until the plant shuffle is completed...so short term for “classic” sales, and long term because the revamping of the manufacturing plants will help them over the long run.
 
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#42 ·
I can understand a manufacturer not wanting to show an upcoming version of a vehicle too soon because it might reduce sales of the current model.
BUT...
FCA has nothing currently on the market that is remotely like the Wagoneer or Grand Wagoneer.
So showing a sketch, drawing, watercolor, computer illustration, concept, etc is NOT going to slow sales of any current vehicle.
It is a new segment for FCA. Something that last existed for an old part of a prior company in the last Grand Wagoneer in the 1990s.
 
#46 ·
I'd be willing to bet that FCA has all of the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer stuff ready to go, wouldnt be surprised if they are waiting on Ford to officially release the Bronco details so they can swoop in and steal their thunder.
 
#48 ·
What is a fair time for DT production to get up to speed ?
Is classic DS really still required, my local dealer is full of DT's ?
When DS classic becomes gravy not necessity will it be easy for FCA to pull the plug for new product ?
Plant shuffle has been a tangible excuse for a long time, how much longer can it be believable?
Regardless of investors i'm sure the new leader is tailoring his own legacy now.

I'm not surprised that we see delays
 
#49 ·
IIRC currently the DT is only in quad cab form right? I thought getting up to speed was to get regular cab and extended cab versions up and going. Until then Warren is building DS. I may be wrong though.
 
#60 ·
I really don't think they're being held to unreasonable standards. After all they are the ones that flash these so called plans in front of the public. Then they make comments about future plans that anyone with even the smallest knowledge of the auto industry knows they're blowing smoke. I'd rather they say absolutely nothing about future plans, then have to have to keep pushing back job one for almost all of these future products. Say what you will about Iacocca, but if he said a new whatever was launching quarter 3 of whatever year it was, it showed up in the showroom. Their credibility is shrinking by the month.
 
#67 · (Edited)
These plans are for investors. They just get relayed to the public thanks to forums and automotive media.

They are being held to unreasonable standards if you expect them to show their vehicles two or more years before they reach production giving their competition like GM, who right now is almost certainly in later stages of development of their new full-size SUVs, an opportunity to see what's coming so they can defend against it before the Wagoneer and Durango even reach the market.

They are being held to unreasonable standards if you expect them to make an announcement once a month giving you information on why a product has been delayed or informing you of what stage of development they are in. They are not required to do that by anyone, and if you expect that from an automaker then I'm afraid you will not be satisfied with any company.

They are being held to unreasonable standards if you expect them to stick to their five year plans despite the changing markets, sacrificing both products and their entire brand when the products that everyone is demanding don't fit in a market after five years of radical changes.

Their credibility may be shrinking to you, but you are just one person. At the end of they day, you are not owed an announcement by anyone at FCA. My advice? I think everyone should stop taking every action by FCA personally. If you think they can sacrifice margins to give you the vehicle you want, that's ridiculous and selfish. It's equally ridiculous to act like the sky is falling every time an FCA exec opens their mouth or every time a model gets updated. At the end of the day, they are just vehicles. It's really not worth spending your life stressing over.
 
#65 ·
To clarify. Wagoneers, Durango, and RAM HD are to come from Warren ? Sounds complicated from a retooling perspective.

I wonder how much of the HD redesign/refresh decisions hinged on the complexities of whats coming out of this plant. Didn't we hear HDs will retain some body panels and shares its predecessors frame ?
 
#72 ·
Things is, they could have already introduced the Wagoneer on the WK2 or DS, then been onto the next generation with the DT by now. The lost opportunity can't be quantified and maybe it would have been a wash or even worse for the bottom line than where they are currently. Timing is everything.
 
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#86 ·
A comprehensive plan like that does require a lot of time to implement correctly. I say we run with it and make it a new "confirmed" rumour to appease the masses.:)
 
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#87 ·
I don't see all the cancelled products as wasted. Investment in those exercises advanced the engineering personnel at young FCA.
Mission became financial improvement
Most Investment went to Euro brands, 1500, Wrangler, and of course the plant shuffle.
Paid for products (Journey and Caravan now possibly Ram classic) tapped as cash cows in place of new product.
Plant shuffle prevented new product.
I might even suggest advancing technologies are delaying product plans.

I think we all get it.
Nobody should feel they need to defend the lack of product, or suggest the frustration caused isn't justified.

New product is overdue.
 
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