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At this point with that worthless judge delaying things would it not be better in the long run to just pay the Veba more and move on?
 

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Jeepnut said:
At this point with that worthless judge delaying things would it not be better in the long run to just pay the Veba more and move on?
If I had to guess, I'd think that's what the judge is secretly up to. Hoping Fiat will just get impatient and pony up the dough for the better of the VEBA fund... or just let it leave his hands and let the public markets decide.
 

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It's a lose lose situation.
 

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FIAT paying more isn't good for Chrysler, and mopar fans should really hate even the thought of it.
FIAT isn't in a position to pay more than what the agreement stipulated, and if it is forced to pay more on account of VeBA's shenanigans and bad faith, what do you think will happen? Simple: they'll have to get extra financing from banks, and the day after they receive VEBA'S shares, they will be forces to pay back those loans using the cash that has been accumulating at Chrysler (and which FIAT has never redistributed as dividends; they have always left that cash in there, at Chrysler, to expand the business).

Net result, VEBA makes a killing off the back of Chrysler, while at the same time crippling the new entity of the ability to invest that extra cash in new models. (I.e. more delays and fewer new launches per year).
 
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I'm curious what shenanigans you are talking about? VEBA'S sole interest in this is to get as much money for their shares as they possibly can. It's capitalism at it best. The clock is ticking Chrysler is getting stronger and Veba's shares are worth more everyday. It's like selling a 70 Hemi Cuda and you own it, anyone on here would never let it go for a give away price. The overseers have fiduciary responsibility to do this right, if they don't they invite lawsuits from members for giving the shares away. In the end this may truly be a merger of equals, and not just Fiat absorbing Chrysler. Sergio is a hard bargainer, but his hand is only getting worse each day and he knows this.

The one question that bugs me is about is all this cash that Chrysler supposedly has. Why is the Chrysler side of this having to cut back?
 

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I think this is a big part of it:

"The trust has the legal duty to pursue every possible path to maximize the value of those shares and to fail in that effort would likely expose it to legal liability."
 

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Well, thank you, VEBA, thanks a lot - you're doing a stellar job of killing the host.

RVC said:
Net result, VEBA makes a killing off the back of Chrysler, while at the same time crippling the new entity of the ability to invest that extra cash in new models. (I.e. more delays and fewer new launches per year).
And then there's the fate of Alfa Romeo...
 

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lol. Back to the same argument. Obviously, we must temper ourselves, and recognize that the intentions of Veba are good. There is 1 important goal for Veba and that is to be as well funded as possible for the employees - this is a good thing. We get it.

BUT, counter that with the obvious. Fiat - Chry, STILL not a healthy company, Fiat's situation is particularly precarious, and Chrysler has a lot of launches of product not to screw up. It really can't afford many mistakes. So while I think anyone can appreciate the goal of Veba, it is a fair criticism that Veba is ignoring the risk of damage their decisions pose to the company, and that's what it so frustrating about the whole situation.
 

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Trailduster45 said:
I'm curious what shenanigans you are talking about?
Don't forget, there was an agreement put in place with the VEBA, an agreement that the VEBA has since shown no intention of complying with. That is the issue, not whether retired workers deserve health benefits.
 

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As a Chrysler retiree VEBA is a benefit I'm concerned about. I received the new VEBA benefit outline the other day, seems the deductible has doubled ? No matter how much cash is sent to the VEBA account I'm positive management fees will destroy this fund ! Prove me wrong ?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Lampredi said:
Don't forget, there was an agreement put in place with the VEBA, an agreement that the VEBA has since shown no intention of complying with. That is the issue, not whether retired workers deserve health benefits.
The disagreement involved in the court battle involves the value of the 3% increments.
As for the remaining shares, VEBA is within its rights to request an IPO to set their value, or come to a negotiated settlement with the company for the remaining shares.
Sergio is not the only person who tries to manipulate negotiations. Both sides use whatever tactics they feel will give them an advantage.
I expect a settlement will be achieved that is beneficial to both sides. After all, everyone is sharing the same bed.
Be patient.
 

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GuidoFL said:
As a Chrysler retiree VEBA is a benefit I'm concerned about. I received the new VEBA benefit outline the other day, seems the deductible has doubled ? No matter how much cash is sent to the VEBA account I'm positive management fees will destroy this fund ! Prove me wrong ?
Take it up with the management of the VEBA, the UAW. There are no corporate executives or greedy capitalists involved. Its labor leaders managing it for labor.
 

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Erik Latranyi said:
Take it up with the management of the VEBA, the UAW. There are no corporate executives or greedy capitalists involved. Its labor leaders managing it for labor.
Not true.
Under the agreement, the UAW was only entitled to appoint half the VEBA board members.
If costs go up for the healthcare & the fund long term can not support those costs, benefits are cut & deductibles are raised. Hence the reason VEBA has a fiduciary & legal requirement to attain the funds required to support the retiree's medical coverage.
 

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Trailduster45 said:
I'm curious what shenanigans you are talking about?
Read the agreement: at the time the parties agreed to a formula that set the value of the shares that VebA holds. At one point, VEBa saw that the company was doing well and they decided that they would try to get more than what they had agreed to initially.
FIAT had to sue, and recently a judge said that FIAT calculations were indeed the correct ones, but failed to force VEBA to actually hand over the shares (hence the "day in court" that will happen between mid 2014 and early 2015).

Using "any means possible" to get the best deal for your retires shouldn't include these type of antics.
 
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I would think if you're a retired Chrysler employee you would want the Trust to look out for your best interests. If you're not retired and don't work for Chrysler then I guess some think it's ok to throw retirees under the bus.


I read the agreement, they are just doing what any good capitalist would do, if you can squeeze more from the turnip do it, it happens everyday in America. Like the other poster said the court case is only for the increment pieces of the company, the rest can be called for through an IPO.
 

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CarsandGuitars said:
Yeah, screw those guys that worked their entire lives for a company and were promised health care benefits. What nerve!
Absolutely not what I'm saying. In fact, of I was one of those workers I'd be severely worried that the trust that's responsible for my pension [EDIT;acts as if it] is in such dire straits that it has to resort to these tactics to scrape together some dough.
Generally speaking, clean lean efficiently run businesses, seldom operate this way.
 
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Please provide proof that the trust is in dire straits?


Remember the days people on here complained that the government simply gave Chrysler to Fiat, that it was terrible they didn't have to pony up any cash? Now that Fiat has to pony up cash that's terrible too. Hey that 41 or so percent could still be owned by Cerebus had they not chickened out and bailed. Does anyone think if they were the ones selling they would not be doing the same thing? you're darn right they would!
 
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