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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guessing what brands/models will survive and which ones won’t is a favorite pastime on this forum.

This morning Auto News indulges: In 14-brand Stellantis, who will make the cut?

My comments at this point:
  • Sounds like PSA is going to refrain from bringing any more brands over here. That’s the right call, IMO, and shows PSA is run by cool heads.
  • Dodge needs wider relevance.
  • I agree that Chrysler is worth saving. But it is going to need a clear mission and more products. “Mainstream people mover” is utter garbage.
  • Fiat is delusional in trying to be a premium brand in N.A. If you look at Fiat’s positioning when it left, it was a peripheral brand for those on a budget. The fact that Fiat officials might now view Fiat as a premium brand doesn’t change anything, especially if buyers don’t see the quality being there.
 

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I truly hope the company becomes more dynamic going forward and if that means shedding some brands, then so be it.
 
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Problem is: The guesswork of a journalist doesn't change anything as well. :D
I don't see any guesswork in that article. They just went to some people and talked to them about the least-favored FCA brands in the US.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That have a separate report —that requires subscription, where apparently they have clues that PSA may not plan to bring any more brands over here. That’s no doubt a blow to Larry Dominique, who spent the past 5 years plotting PSA’s return, but is the prudent thing to do, IMO.

Stellantis is going to have its hands full for the foreseeable future, to want to add relaunching Peugeot here.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The guess is that Tavares will be more rational than Sergio and follow what market research will tell him.
Yes, so far that seems to be the case.
 

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The guess is that Tavares will be more rational than Sergio and follow what market research will tell him.
Tavares led Nissan in North America for many years. Despite that, he still launched a "study" to bring PSA brands to the region because he is not arrogant enough to think he knows more than others......like previous leadership.
 

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Peugeot USA has to be dead now. It only made sense because PSA had no other way to access the US new car market. Now it has two it can use to sell those EMP1 and EMP2 vehicles (Chrysler and FIAT).

As a result, I also think FIAT has been thrown a lifeline, and will remain in the US as a seller of compact and smaller cars. Given more product (PSA re-badges included) it can pay for itself. Closing 500 assembly at Toluca was the biggest cost saving that could be made, so there's no significant financial benefit to closing it now. It's not costing a lot of money, and there's nothing it can really be replaced with.

Chrysler really looks like it could be the biggest winner, as it now becomes the natural brand to sell the larger vehicles that were planned for the core of PSA's Peugeot launch. Larry Dominique's brand work on Peugeot could be applicable to rehabilitating Chrysler (and FIAT) in the US - it would be foolish to waste those years of work.

The European market is more complex, as it is very regional. PSA and FIAT do well in "Latin" Europe, but have different strong markets (unlike PSA, FIAT has been starved of product in key segments, but normally they sell similar volumes overall). Opel is very much biased toward Germanic and Central Europe (Vauxhall is not a proper brand, it's just a rebadge of Opel for the UK market, which I include in "Germanic" Europe). Killing any of these brands means losing regional market-share that's unlikely to transfer to another in-family brand.

Citroën and FIAT's non-500 line have quite a bit of crossover as brands, especially in the way they're not afraid to be more playful with styling and put utility ahead of conformity. I don't see how you could regionally split these brands though.

However, I do expect DS and Lancia to become like Opel/Vauxhall very soon. Lancia is Italy-only now as it is, but it's also a big seller in Italy, and losing that brand means scattering those customers to the wind.

The others: Alfa, Dodge, RAM, Maserati, Jeep, all have no incoming competition, so will stay as they are, serving the markets they serve.

@Erik Latranyi Not the same scale of work at all. To relaunch Peugeot, PSA would have had to develop an entire retail, service and logistics support chain for Peugeot from zero, and the stakes were much higher for PSA - failure would have been fatal. Adding FIAT to the Chrysler family was nothing like the same scale of undertaking, and the market was going wild for subcompacts at the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Tavares led Nissan in North America for many years. Despite that, he still launched a "study" to bring PSA brands to the region because he is not arrogant enough to think he knows more than others......like previous leadership.
You must be thinking of José Muñoz, who ran Nissan N.A. for 4 or 5 years; he is now head of Hyundai America. Carlos Tavares was 2nd in command to Carlos Ghosn at Renault HQ.

The two Carlos had a falling out when Tavares had the audacity to tell Ghosn that he was "ready to run a global automaker." Ghosn, who viewed Renault-Nissan as his personal fiefdom, apparently felt threatened by Tavares. The latter saw the writing on the wall and left, later popping up at archrival PSA.

Tavares turned around PSA in record time; then took over Opel/Vauxhall and within 12 months he worked his magic there, too. Something GM was unable to do for 20 years.
 

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You must be thinking of José Muñoz, who ran Nissan N.A. for 4 or 5 years; he is now head of Hyundai America. Carlos Tavares was 2nd in command to Carlos Ghosn at Renault HQ.

The two Carlos had a falling out when Tavares had the audacity to tell Ghosn that he was "ready to run a global automaker." Ghosn, who viewed Renault-Nissan as his personal fiefdom, apparently felt threatened by Tavares. The latter saw the writing on the wall and left, later popping up at archrival PSA.

Tavares turned around PSA in record time; then took over Opel/Vauxhall and within 12 months he worked his magic there, too. Something GM was unable to do for 20 years.
Carlos Tavares is a Portuguese businessperson who has been the head of 7 different companies. Mr. Tavares is Chief Executive Officer of Stellantis and Chairman-Management Board at Peugeot SA, Chairman of Peugeot Citroën Automobiles SA (a subsidiary of Peugeot SA). Carlos Tavares is also on the board of Airbus SE and Chairman of Fondation PSA Peugeot Citroën.

In his past career he was President of European Automobile Manufacturers Association, Chief Operating Officer for Renault SA, General Manager-Micro Enterprise at Bed & Breakfast Association of Kentucky, Member-Managing Board at Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance, Director at Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. and Chairman & President of Nissan North America, Inc. (a subsidiary of Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.) and Chairman-Supervisory Board of Opel Automobile GmbH.



From 2009 to 2011 Tavares ran Nissan North America for over 2 years before becoming COO of Renault
 

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2021 Lancia Ypsilon Spy Photos Show The Sad State Of The Fabled Brand


From the article:

The current-generation Ypsilon is actually 10 years old, and from what we see in these shots, that formula really isn't changing much. Featured here courtesy of Walter Vayr on Facebook, a very slight redesign for the lower fascia is in store. It's also possible the Ypsilon's grille and headlights will gain some sharper edges versus the existing model. That could be a clever ruse with the use of black tape, but the headlights at least appear to adopt a sharper angle. The small hatchback will still be completely recognizable to fans of the brand, however, because it appears the rest of the Ypsilon soldiers on unchanged.

Full article here:

2021 Lancia Ypsilon Spy Photos Show The Sad State Of The Fabled Brand (motor1.com)
 

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79110
 

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Lancia sells 50,000 units a year, with just one model and every single sale from just one country: Italy. That's the same number of cars as DS's total for all of Europe, with five models. That's why I think the brand will survive.

However, Lancia desperately needs product, and making it the Italian face of DS would help a lot - I imagine that just re-badging DS3 as a Lancia would add considerably to its Italian sales.

There's also a left-field idea that if DS has good product without a brand, and Lancia has a good brand without product, perhaps Lancia should expand again in Europe, and replace DS. I don't think PSA egos would allow this, though...
 

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I just wonder if DS or Lancia would sell better with the same model range in "neutral" countries like Germany, Spain or Ireland. And what happens in Italy if there's a 5-door 500? And would a new Ypsilon sell without the current discounts?
 

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Lancia sells 50,000 units a year, with just one model and every single sale from just one country: Italy. That's the same number of cars as DS's total for all of Europe, with five models. That's why I think the brand will survive.

However, Lancia desperately needs product, and making it the Italian face of DS would help a lot - I imagine that just re-badging DS3 as a Lancia would add considerably to its Italian sales.

There's also a left-field idea that if DS has good product without a brand, and Lancia has a good brand without product, perhaps Lancia should expand again in Europe, and replace DS. I don't think PSA egos would allow this, though...
Rebranding Chryslers as Lancias did not seem to work well.....I know that is not the same as rebranding DS, but probably a sign of Lancia's weakness.
 

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Well, current (last 20 years) Lancia and DS are much more similar than Chrysler and Lancia could have ever been. Both very female, mostly reskinned versions of compact mass-market cars with chrome and plush.
 

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I just wonder if DS or Lancia would sell better with the same model range in "neutral" countries like Germany, Spain or Ireland. And what happens in Italy if there's a 5-door 500? And would a new Ypsilon sell without the current discounts?
Lancia is Italy-centric brand. 500 is the opposite. Just look at sales data. Small 500 is so strong outside of Italy, especially ths new electric 500.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Carlos Tavares is a Portuguese businessperson who has been the head of 7 different companies. Mr. Tavares is Chief Executive Officer of Stellantis and Chairman-Management Board at Peugeot SA, Chairman of Peugeot Citroën Automobiles SA (a subsidiary of Peugeot SA). Carlos Tavares is also on the board of Airbus SE and Chairman of Fondation PSA Peugeot Citroën.

In his past career he was President of European Automobile Manufacturers Association, Chief Operating Officer for Renault SA, General Manager-Micro Enterprise at Bed & Breakfast Association of Kentucky, Member-Managing Board at Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance, Director at Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. and Chairman & President of Nissan North America, Inc. (a subsidiary of Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.) and Chairman-Supervisory Board of Opel Automobile GmbH.



From 2009 to 2011 Tavares ran Nissan North America for over 2 years before becoming COO of Renault
Ha! I totally missed that! Must have happened when I blinked...
 
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