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Cornupenuria said:
Many years ago, after some unpleasant financial experiences, I decided never again to trust anyone who drove a two-door Cadillac or two-door Lincoln with my money. That has served me well for fifty-five years.
I had a similar experience with these people from Denver, but one drove a 4 door Cadillac and the other drove a windowless Chevy van, so that part is not a good way to stereotype. At the same time, I don't think this new Avenger is going to be anywhere near this size, which isn't something I would care for, either. Something the size of the E body would be a good size, sure, 116-117 inch wheelbase may sound long, but it is a well handling length. Little long for today's standards, but 106 would be better than 96.
 

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The Poster Formerly Known As "Bethlumboy"
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IMHO, 116-117 inch WB would make this car way too big. Challenger's WB is 116 and Charger's is 120.

I think it would make sense for Dodge to build a C-segment RWD coupe (Demon? Stealth?) with a WB of 103 to 106 inches as a direct Mustang competitor, and a D-segment Avenger sedan with a WB of about 110 inches.These architectures could be used for an Alfa Romeo 6C coupe and Giulia sedan, respectively. A RWD Alfa sedan with a 110 inch wheelbase would be a direct competitor to the BMW 3.


James Mooney said:
It may be interesting to note that the Dodge Dart and Ford Mustang are fairly close in size:

Dimension: Dart / Mustang (inches)
Wheelbase: 106.4 / 107.1
Length: 183.9 / 188.1
Width: 72.0 / 73.9
Height: 57.7 / 55.6

If D-RWD is indeed based on CUSW, as rumored, would it not be possible to offer a RWD car with dimensions similar to the Dart's, and therefore the Mustang's?

A RWD Dart-sized coupe could be a direct competitor to the Mustang and would compete less with the Challenger than a 200-sized coupe would. They could call it Demon and offer it with turbocharged 4s and 6s and the 5.7 V8.

The RWD Avenger sedan could be based on the next 200 (which, I suspect, will be slightly larger than the current one-- like the Accord-- to compete not only with the Camry and Fusion but possibly with the Avalon and Taurus as well) to slot between the Dart and Charger sedans.
 

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I'm thinking the dimensions will benefit Alfa first ( and in a stretch, perhaps even Lancia and/or Maserati as well ), and Dodge will 'benefit' from that.

(Mainly because they want to launch Alfa with as much as would aid the presence of their models - the Brand has been around with established USA buyer profiles ... Alfa needs to re-establish)
 

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1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
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Right, I think the dimensions will be driven by Alfa’s needs, though I suspect Chrysler will be leading the development. Hard to say, really, other than LX and of course Jeeps and trucks, Chrysler has no recent experience in rear wheel drive, and the guys who led the last major new internal RWD project (F/J/M body) are most likely all retired now... that said, the truck experience is not useless.
 

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James Mooney said:
IMHO, 116-117 inch WB would make this car way too big. Challenger's WB is 116 and Charger's is 120.

I think it would make sense for Dodge to build a C-segment RWD coupe (Demon? Stealth?) with a WB of 103 to 106 inches as a direct Mustang competitor, and a D-segment Avenger sedan with a WB of about 110 inches.These architectures could be used for an Alfa Romeo 6C coupe and Giulia sedan, respectively. A RWD Alfa sedan with a 110 inch wheelbase would be a direct competitor to the BMW 3.
I think it'd be nice for Challenger itself to drop onto 110in WB similar to the original, thus saving weight. The original Challenger was also roomy front and back..
 

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Barracuda was 108, Challenger was 110, 68-70 Charger was 117.
 

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Dave said:
... I suspect Chrysler will be leading the development. Hard to say, really, other than LX and of course Jeeps and trucks, Chrysler has no recent experience in rear wheel drive...
??? I'd think the knowledge from the L cars is sufficient. Not to mention Viper.
 

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I would have to agree. There is plenty of historical examples from the LX designs, so setting up an IRS in the rear isn't rocket science, per se, just geometry and tuning for American roads, weight, and package dimensions.
 

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Not to mention if this is a joint project then you know there are Ferrari/Maserati/Alfa engineers there to help the Chrysler guys.
 

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I think Chrysler would need every help in Fiat's house to pull out a world-class Mid-size car...
 

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They have done pretty good by themselves, it is usually the other way around when it comes to help.
 
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That is true for Maserati QP and Ghibli.

I think Dodge needs another successful RWD car platform like L-, and it would need what they've learned when Maserati used L-platform, to combine the best of both..
 

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Mopar392 said:
That is true for Maserati QP and Ghibli.

I think Dodge needs another successful RWD car platform like L-, and it would need what they've learned when Maserati used L-platform, to combine the best of both..
I'm not sure they learned anything from Maserati about platform, or architecture.
What is to be learned is quality control and not to cut corners when building quality into a vehicle.
JavelinAMX said:
Uhmmm ... also Jeep Wrangler - yes?
Not if we are talking about a pavement car, with IRS. Not much translates from Wrangler into a Maserati. ;)
 

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Perhaps this is too far off-topic ( a Euro-brand benefiting from Chry/Dodge/Jeep or the other way, Euro aid to Chry/Dodge/Jeep ) -

But I sense there'd be a benefit from getting the smaller, but good producing Maserati V8. I also speculate that if that ever would happen, ChryFi would feel the need to alter it a bit to make it more bread-and-butter, more homogenized (and less direct challenge to Maserati). But the space between the 3.6L V6 and the Hemi leaves a bit of a gap that a smaller, lighter V8 might feel at home in.

Furthermore, I don't think I'm too far off-base to note previous speculation right here on Allpar that such a mid-level V8 just might actually fit in the Caravan ...

I realize this is heavily speculative - but what do y'all think? Workable? I think you have to tilt your head just so and squint, but it makes sense to me.
 

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JavelinAMX said:
Perhaps this is too far off-topic ( a Euro-brand benefiting from Chry/Dodge/Jeep or the other way, Euro aid to Chry/Dodge/Jeep ) -

But I sense there'd be a benefit from getting the smaller, but good producing Maserati V8. I also speculate that if that ever would happen, ChryFi would feel the need to alter it a bit to make it more bread-and-butter, more homogenized (and less direct challenge to Maserati). But the space between the 3.6L V6 and the Hemi leaves a bit of a gap that a smaller, lighter V8 might feel at home in.

Furthermore, I don't think I'm too far off-base to note previous speculation right here on Allpar that such a mid-level V8 just might actually fit in the Caravan ...

I realize this is heavily speculative - but what do y'all think? Workable? I think you have to tilt your head just so and squint, but it makes sense to me.
My first guess would be the cost of the Maserati V8 would be to high to work in the RWD Avenger unless it was the SRT powerplant.
 

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MoparNorm said:
I'm not sure they learned anything from Maserati about platform, or architecture.
What is to be learned is quality control and not to cut corners when building quality into a vehicle.

Not if we are talking about a pavement car, with IRS. Not much translates from Wrangler into a Maserati. ;)
I was thinking Rdrive, but okay ... that's maseratis' loss :)
 

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Jeepnut said:
My first guess would be the cost of the Maserati V8 would be to high to work in the RWD Avenger unless it was the SRT powerplant.
You're probably right. My thinking was for something a little closer to plain jane power for both mid-level cars and the phantom Dakota and, in a stretch, the minivan ( I'm supposing it would also be useful in the Cross being planned). Having more 'homes' for it would or could lower unit-cost; especially if it's deployed as a de-Maserati power plant aimed at being a bit more mainstream - that way keeping it out of the upscale SRT market.
 

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JavelinAMX said:
You're probably right. My thinking was for something a little closer to plain jane power for both mid-level cars and the phantom Dakota and, in a stretch, the minivan ( I'm supposing it would also be useful in the Cross being planned). Having more 'homes' for it would or could lower unit-cost; especially if it's deployed as a de-Maserati power plant aimed at being a bit more mainstream - that way keeping it out of the upscale SRT market.
You may be right its a good question for the engineering folks here.
 
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