[russ93spirit]

First day at work today after two days forced time off due to Hurricane Ivan. On way home in the Daytona, broke timing belt...$125.00 (cash only) tow home. Will gather a belt, tensioner and water pump tomorrow and fix it Saturday...I had checked the timing belt a few months ago, and it appeared to be ok...FWIW. Very glad to have backup cars!

 

[AllanC]

You are just getting over the stress of a hurricane in your location and now a new problem arises. Fortunately that 2.5L 4 cylinder engine is a non-interference so no valve or piston damage has occurred. Just a few hours labor and you will have it running again.

I am thinking that some of the teeth stripped on the belt at the crankshaft and it did not actually separate. It is difficult to inspect the rubber teeth of the belt for fatigue and cracks when it is mounted on the sprockets. Do you know how many miles of driving you got on this belt? Of course lots of time spent engine idling adds wear so belt life based on odometer chassis miles is not the most accurate measure.

 

[chuzz]

Allan is probably right, Russ. When mine let go in my 94 Acclaim years ago, it stripped teeth off the belt at the crank pulley. The cam pulley and belt were in good shape. Then when I cranked it with the distributor cap off, I had no rotation.

 

[ImperialCrown]

The water pump isn't in the belt path of the t/belt on the 2.2L/2.5L.
If it isn't leaking or growling presently, it doesn't have to be part of the t/belt service.

 

[russ93spirit]

True, Imperial. My WP is good, with no weeping or growling, so I'll not worry with it right now...

I agree, what I expect to find is stripped teeth, not a broken belt. Will start on it tomorrow bright and early.

Thanks

 

[russ93spirit]

As I write this I am in a state of exhaustion...had no help today, so tried to push car across yard into shop and gave up, so did the work in the open sun. Got the new belt and tensioner in by mid day and started car up. Ran good, started normally, just with a high idle. Drove it into the shop and found the vac line from the MAP sensor had come undone at some point. Decided to set/check the timing, and found it at about 16-plus at idle, in park, with CTS unplugged. Plugged in the vac line to the MAP and set timing at 12 degrees. Shut it off and started putting tools away. Decided to drive it around the neighborhood, and car would not start.

Eventually got it started by opening the throttle. Checked codes and got 13 and 13, both MAP related. Swapped out the MAP for a known good one, no change. Also unplugged MAP vac line while running, and it would barely idle. This leads me to believe the MAP is good.

I found a couple of small, rigid type vac lines leading to the purge canister that were unplugged near the throttle body as well. Just before I quit for the day, I was able to get two normal starts out of it, but then it idled rough. Found fouled spark plugs, which also have a good bit of wear on them. Will replace them in the a.m. with a new set of RN12YC's and see what happens.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I am also worried about leaky cam and crank seals. Saw lots of oil and grime when changing the timing belt. I don't have the special tool needed to replace these.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Sorry you had such a tough day.

I'll bet the code 13 is due to snapped rigid vacuum lines. I broke two of them (one snapped off, one cracked longitudinally) when I did my head gasket and timing belt.

If you find damage rigid line, Autozone carries rubber vacuum line splices, either in the Help! section, or more likely, in the PCV valve section. There is an assorted package, and I found that 7mm tubing, I think, fits over that rigid line. The splice pieces are about 4" long, so you can patch a couple of snapped rigid lines with each.

The cracked rigid lines could be inside that corrugated sleeving that runs near the fuel lines - I cracked mine between there and the throttle body. Splicing with this rubber tubing is much easier than replacing the entire rigid line.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_soft-black-vacuum-tubing-connector-assortment-1-8-5-32-3-16-1-4-inch-dorman--autograde_22140370-p?searchTerm=vacuum+tubing

and

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_soft-elbow-vacuum-tubing-connector-assortment-dorman--autograde_22147140-p?searchTerm=vacuum+tubing

come in very handy.

 

[russ93spirit]

Thanks, Bob, I'll pick up some of these when I get the plugs.

 

[ImperialCrown]

The cam seal isn't hard to change and is usually the leaker due to the heat of the head compared to the heat of the lower block. The rubber hardens.
I chalk mark or tie wrap the belt and upper sprocket together and with a bungie cord keeping tension on it, remove the cam bolt and hook the cord to the underside of the hood to hold the assembly out of the way in order to service the seal.
A seal pick between the outer seal and head should jack the old one out enough to grab and pry it with a small flatblade. Use care not to scratch or ding the cam journal wear surface with the tools. A deep 12-pt socket can be used to tap the new seal into place. Engine oil leaking onto a rubber belt may deteriorate the rubber after awhile, so you want to fix this.
You may be able to get away with running the ign timing at 14-16 degrees BTDC without ping as you found it before.
If the plugs aren't that old, you may be able to wire brush the carbon off and they should self-clean on a road test after a full warm-up. Once the cause of the fouling is addressed, they should be OK.
Did you find the old belt teeth stripped off under the crank sprocket? Was the old belt oil-soaked?

 

[russ93spirit]

Thanks for the reply, Imperial. I got the car running pretty good this a.m. and went ahead with new plugs, cap, rotor and plug wires. Also improved on a couple of vac lines.

The big issue is this thing is really pouring oil now. Before the timing belt broke, I did not have oil dripping to speak of. Now, after running for a few minutes, I see a puddle about 4 inches in diameter, under the pass side of the engine. When replacing the timing belt, I saw evidence of leaks at the cam seal and crank seal, but I also see oil running down the back of the block from either the head gasket or valve cover (new style) and from the oil pan gasket.

The old timing belt was covered in oil and grime and was severed as well as missing some teeth.

My son is thinking that as the seal condition worsened, the leaks caused the belt to slip and break, and that if I put the car back on the road as is, the new belt will also slip and break soon. He's voting for pulling the engine and replacing every seal, etc.

 

[russ93spirit]

I pulled the cam seal Passenger side, and it has been seeping, but probably not pouring. Will put a new one in, but I don't think this is the main cause of the oil leak. Inspected the old timing belt more closely, and it severed, in an area where about 10 consecutive teeth were missing. I can see the inner fiber material that ripped apart. Other sections of the belt show the same fiber starting to show, and small cracks at the base of other teeth. I do not remember where the bad section was positioned relative to the crankshaft.

 

[russ93spirit]

Installed new cam seal and found a loose high pressure line at the power steering pump and tightened it. Ran car in place for about 10 minutes with no dripping leaks. I am about to road test it.

During the 10 minute idle, once warm, the car would intermittently stumble a bit, with decreased idle rpm's. Cracking open the throttle for a few seconds calmed it down. Checked the brand new plug in cylinder 1, and it was fouled. So, I still have an unexplained fouling problem, which never existed until the timing belt broke. Strange.

 

[russ93spirit]

Drove car around neighborhood, and no major oil leaks or drips. That's a huge relief. After car is warm though, I have an intermittent stumble at idle, which goes away with throttle. It is during these episodes when the plugs are fouling, I believe.

No codes, either.

 

[ImperialCrown]

You might want to try bumping the basic timing back to 16 BTDC where you found it. Nothing wrong with a little more advance to see if it helps the stumble and fouling issue. If you start to get hot ping under load, you can easily back it off a bit.
Are you confident that all the vacuum leaks are now repaired? I'm just trying to think of what else changed with the t/belt service.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Check not only all the vacuum lines again, rigid and rubber, but also make sure you plugged in the evap solenoid and EGR valve. And make sure the retaining clip is securely in place on the fuel injector plug. I lost one once, PLINK, off into space it went, and I had to fabricate one out of a paper clip. If that clip isn't on, the fuel injector can cut out intermittently.

Check all the wiring behind the valve cover for fraying and shorting, as well.

 

[russ93spirit]

I was confident in the vac leak repairs, but I am hearing a bit more "hissing" sound from the TB itself. I also verified that the TB itself is tight against the intake. Will try the timing at 16.

Thanks for all the help!

Check not only all the vacuum lines again, rigid and rubber, but also make sure you plugged in the evap solenoid and EGR valve. And make sure the retaining clip is securely in place on the fuel injector plug. I lost one once, PLINK, off into space it went, and I had to fabricate one out of a paper clip. If that clip isn't on, the fuel injector can cut out intermittently.

Check all the wiring behind the valve cover for fraying and shorting, as well.

Will do, Bob...thanks

 

[russ93spirit]

Just did a little research on plug fouling, and my cause of the fouling could be a result of me playing with the timing so much in the last two days. I, of course unplugged the CTS for this, and my only driving has been very limited in the neighborhood or idling in the shop. So, even after I reinsttall the CTS connector, on my short test drives, the engine may not be getting out of closed loop. Will pull and check/clean all the plugs and take it onto the highway tomorrow a.m. to see how it does.