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Broken Rocker Arm How long can I drive before causing significant damage to the Cam shaft

75087 Views 28 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  TaxiGirl
This is the second time that this has happened. Last time, i had a mechanic replace #3 and #5 rocker arms ($500). and later when the familiar tick came back I used MMO and no longer had a problem. Now, the tick is back with a vengence. I was trying to hold out until this Thursday. I have a loss of compression as well when accelerating. And I still have a high pitch or medium high pitched gurgling sound when accelerating also.

Btw i changed my oil yesterday, when mechanic opens the head, does he have drain oil out to replace rocker arms?

2011 dodge grand caravan 3.6 Pentastar
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

I have already replaced the left cylinder head around 150K miles. Now, I have over 317K miles. Are you saying that I should replace the head again?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Was it just a junkyard pull, or was it machined/reconditioned? Why was the left head replaced at that time?
It was replaced under the WARRANTY at the dealership right before the warranty ran out. i had a number 3 ( i think) misfire. of course, I am talking about Clay Cooley Dodge. and I did not know that they were not really a real Dodge dealership at that time, and since they are sporting the Mopar name and call themselves Clay Cooley Dodge. at that time I did not know any better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OMG! I had to educate myself since I have not messed with rocker arms since the 89's 3L and my 69 Nova's small block. The rocker arms in the 3.6L look like something out of a Legos box. Unbelievably tiny and frail compared to what I am used to seeing. Being a retired ME, I can understand that engineering has progressed with FEA and other tools for design but these parts look like they should be stamped with "Singer Sewing Machine Company" on them.
I pulled up this youTube of the situation.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPly9YAM_1E

The analysis of the valve assembly operation must be minutely studied when considering the forces and speeds of operation. And QC of the roller and pin holding it in the rocker arm must be high to prevent premature failure.
The rocker arms do fall off or break and start making noise.. I had #3 and #5 rocker arms replaced before. Now, getting ready to replace Camshafts, phazers, timing chains, guides, tensioners. etc. hopefully the ticking noise will stop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
These rockers look to be the same design as used in prior Engines going back to the 1988 2.2/2.5.

I guess they reached the limit of "lightness" as I haven't really heard of rocker failures in even 2.7's.

Any chance you just need rockers or are the cams tore up as well??

Best of luck TaxiGirl!!

Thanks
Randy
Well, I have replaced left cylinder head under warranty and later replaced #3 AND #5 broken rocker arms.later ticking noise was back and I remedied it will MMO for at least 6 months if not longer, Now, 317K plus miles, ticking again and the MMO does not work, so, I am replacing all of that stuff per a master mechanic, who does not work for Dodge and who is mainly just listening to the noise. Expensive fix but. if it fixes it I will be happy if it does not. I will just move onto the next thing. thank you for commenting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Now I see there is a StarCase on this issue: STAR Case bulletin, S1309000016

CAMSHAFT/FOLLOWER REPLACEMENT | Mopar Magazine (at https://www.moparmagazine.com/2016/06/camshaftfollower-replacement/ )

Appears to cover rockers and possibly lash adjusters.

I'm curious if the replacement parts are better??

I see they only replaced the collapsed lash adjusters.

Melling JB7525 Lash adjuster : $5.99 Melling JB-7525 Engine Lifter for 11-14 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK with 3.6L Engine (at https://www.quadratec.com/products/51001_0208.htm )

Melling MR1332 Rocker: $7.99 Melling MR-1332 Rocker Arm for 11-14 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK with 3.6L Engine (at https://www.quadratec.com/products/51103_0225.htm )

Thanks
Randy
I was just looking at this issue via this link CAMSHAFT/FOLLOWER REPLACEMENT | Mopar Magazine (at https://www.moparmagazine.com/2016/06/camshaftfollower-replacement/ )
I am nervous because I like to be right in the middle of what's going on with my vehicle and I will not be allowed to
do this because of the ole insurance excuse. I wished I had time and to do it myself. My biggest fear is that all of parts that I ordered may not actually get put on my van, I have real trust issues. Even though this mechanic helped me out before. I know by law I can see all of the parts that were taken out of mine and I guess that is the only thing I can do
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Now I see there is a StarCase on this issue: STAR Case bulletin, S1309000016

CAMSHAFT/FOLLOWER REPLACEMENT | Mopar Magazine (at https://www.moparmagazine.com/2016/06/camshaftfollower-replacement/ )

Appears to cover rockers and possibly lash adjusters.

I'm curious if the replacement parts are better??

I see they only replaced the collapsed lash adjusters.

Melling JB7525 Lash adjuster : $5.99 Melling JB-7525 Engine Lifter for 11-14 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK with 3.6L Engine (at https://www.quadratec.com/products/51001_0208.htm )

Melling MR1332 Rocker: $7.99 Melling MR-1332 Rocker Arm for 11-14 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK with 3.6L Engine (at https://www.quadratec.com/products/51103_0225.htm )

Thanks
Randy

I went ahead and added 4 of the valve adjusters to my order that has not shipped yet. Thanks Randy
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
317K is great for any assembly with high cycles so I take my hat off to the engineers. Maybe I am old school but I sort of remember cam forces and the dynamics of lift on plate cams (of which these are compared to box cams which encapsulate the followers) and that the hot rod cams with big bumps were the ones that bent the push rods and busted the rocker arms and one would have to go with solid lifters and all that stuff. So, the rise on these cams must be pretty mild in comparison. Well, it is true that when they went with double overhead cams, one has a cam profile for intake and one for exhaust so there is probably the goodness. But everything takes up room so more things make for smaller things.
Forget oil additives since the radial forces on the cam follower are probably shearing that little pin of which it rotates on. If one has hydraulic lifters, the only adjustment I remember doing on the small block V-8 is to tighten until the noise of the lifter stops and 1/4 turn more. It was the solid lifters in which one adjusted the lash since there is no compensation. I need to get an assembly in my hands.
I know hundreds of guys driving these and most all if them have to replace transmission or engine at around 150k miles. However, if you take care of it, you can make it last. i want to at least get 500k out of it. it is a v6 though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
These rockers look to be the same design as used in prior Engines going back to the 1988 2.2/2.5.

I guess they reached the limit of "lightness" as I haven't really heard of rocker failures in even 2.7's.

Any chance you just need rockers or are the cams tore up as well??

Best of luck TaxiGirl!!

Thanks
Randy
the more I think about this repair, the more i want to try and just do it myself. Is it really that difficult to remove all 4 camshafts actuators, oil pump, timing chains guides solenoid vales install what valve lifters thar are bad and replace all the rocker arms? the rngine does not have to come out does it? Do i nee special tools to get all back toether and workinh correctly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
While I have no personal experience with the 3.6, I would try to swap rockers without loosening the cams.

Here is a picture of a spring compressor used on older Engines just for this purpose.

Might have to buy or make something for the 3.6

Thanks
Randy

I already ordered all of the parts. They are coming from New York. I definitly do not have any thing that looks like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Here is a video on timing the cams on a Pentastar, this one clean and not in a vehicle.

I have no idea on your skills but this is very involved and there is no allowable error.

Starting, or attempting to start, an Engine with incorrect cam timing can result in severe damage.

Rockers on the other hand not so complicated.

The tool I showed is like the one I have used when changing rockers/lash adjusters on many OHC Engines.

The "hook" grabs the cam and the other end compresses the valve spring enough to R&R the rockers.

Pressure must be exerted on the red handle to apply the force needed to compress each spring.

Thanks
Randy



Thank you. There is no way I would attempt to do this repair..
 
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