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Problems should be worked out before releasing vehicle for mass production. Just because everyone else is cheaping out and deflecting the make-it-right cost onto consumers, doesn't make it ok.

No chance in hell I'm paying almost as much money as I did on my house for a new car or truck, and I'm expected to just accept issues that shouldn't be a thing after 100+ years of auto manufacturing, because engineers made a slightly different frame geometry than the decades before?

Has all the supposed billions spent on R+D not taught auto makers how to prevent rattles? Billions of R+D money hasn't taught them to use high quality electrical connectors and rubbers? All this engineering experience should be overlooked because of some new geometry and body panels? Aaaannnd you want me to pay $100,000 for it?

Should I laugh now or......
I don't expect a vehicle that you can remove it's roof , take off it's doors, and also physically move it's windshield up or down, to be completely sealed form the elements either, but hey-yo, what do I know.
It's not like every convertible leaks at some point.
Or any vehicle with a sunroof either.
 

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I don't expect a vehicle that you can remove it's roof , take off it's doors, and also physically move it's windshield up or down, to be completely sealed form the elements either, but hey-yo, what do I know.
It's not like every convertible leaks at some point.
Or any vehicle with a sunroof either.
All convertibles have been plagued with leaks. Some did better than others, but almost all develop leaks over time.

It is not easy to seal a shaking, rattling vehicle with a removeable top. Wrangler has had leaks since 1941.
 

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I spent about 2 hours with a Bronco yesterday night. I did not get to drive it but did ride in it. I did note some fit/finish issues they're going to need to work out but it wasn't as bad as the example in this thread. The interior materials are CHEAP feeling though. It's the same as in the Escape and Bronco Sport. Never did I think I would be praising the Wrangler's interior materials as a strong suit.
 

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All convertibles have been plagued with leaks. Some did better than others, but almost all develop leaks over time.

It is not easy to seal a shaking, rattling vehicle with a removeable top. Wrangler has had leaks since 1941.
Seals/gaskets break down over time, but these aren’t meant to be 100% sealed off from the environment. Accepting a few leaks here and there is just part of the entrance fee for these types of vehicles. If someone isn’t willing to put up with that, then this isn’t probably the type of vehicle for them.
 

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I don't expect a vehicle that you can remove it's roof , take off it's doors, and also physically move it's windshield up or down, to be completely sealed form the elements either, but hey-yo, what do I know.
It's not like every convertible leaks at some point.
Or any vehicle with a sunroof either.
I won't own a vehicle with any of those features 🤣
 

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I won't own a vehicle with any of those features 🤣
Then why are you commenting in a thread about quality issues for that type of vehicle?
 

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With all the crap that goes into cars these days, I’m surprised there aren’t even more problems. Let’s combine mechanical systems with all sorts of electronics, add flammable and corrosive liquids and explosive gases, and release them into all varieties of environmental conditions, being operated by consumers who do the bare minimum of maintenance (for the most part). What could go wrong?

As far as Ford, some people here really seem to have a grudge against them for one reason or another. To each their own on that, but for myself I’m not vested in any of the automakers enough to care that deeply…other than Jeep. But I’m certainly not going to continually bash any company or nitpick their mistakes…other than Jeep…lol. They all have issues, and blaming one for issues for another just doesn’t make any sense...barring any type of corporate sabotage, of course. Does pointing out the mistakes of others somehow make one feel better about their own mistakes? Does it erase one’s own mistakes?

As far as (former) FCA products, did all the delays result in a better, problem-free product when it did hit the market? Nope, despite some here claiming that that was a primary reason for the delays in the first place.

Crap like this happens. It’s going to continue to happen, especially given how complex cars are these days, and given the manufacturing difficulties during a pandemic. It’s how you handle those problems, and how you treat your customers, which is key.
 

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I don't see this issue as a big problem that Ford won't overcome. As I see it, it's purely a cosmetic issue of the molded in color, and it doesn't affect the functionality of the top, the top still covers the vehicle.

If Ford has to go to a different manufacturer that can get it right, then I believe they'll do that and then all the owners that have the affected tops will get a new one. They should still be able to drive their vehicles while Ford figures it out.
 

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No, it’s not just the color of the roof, it appears to be scratches or blemishes in the top itself and rough seams, and that weird honeycomb appearance that was described. Here are some of the comments and pics from one of the forums (there was a link in the article which I missed the first time). I didn’t go through the entire thread, but it appears the defects are cosmetic and don’t interfere in the function of the roof. That doesn’t excuse it, it just means you can still use the top while this gets sorted out. On a vehicle that easily costs over $50k, I would not be happy in the least. I’d be expecting them to fix it ASAP. Not sure how that stuff wasn’t noticed before the customer took possession of the vehicle, that’s a pretty good case of lack of attention to detail or just not giving a rats posterior exhaust port.

 

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Then why are you commenting in a thread about quality issues for that type of vehicle?
I don't see any laws, rules or policies saying I have to own or be interested in owning a certain vehicle or feature to be elligible to discuss them. Is that a rule or would you just like to censor what you don't like to hear?
 

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I don't see any laws, rules or policies saying I have to own or be interested in owning a certain vehicle or feature to be elligible to discuss them. Is that a rule or would you just like to censor what you don't like to hear?
No, it's just ironic you were griping about features on a vehicle you yourself said you'd never own. Features that are specific to that type of vehicle (an off road oriented vehicle with a removable roof).
It would be like me criticizing a Bentley's features and quality.
 
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No, it’s not just the color of the roof, it appears to be scratches or blemishes in the top itself and rough seams, and that weird honeycomb appearance that was described. Here are some of the comments and pics from one of the forums (there was a link in the article which I missed the first time). I didn’t go through the entire thread, but it appears the defects are cosmetic and don’t interfere in the function of the roof. That doesn’t excuse it, it just means you can still use the top while this gets sorted out. On a vehicle that easily costs over $50k, I would not be happy in the least. I’d be expecting them to fix it ASAP. Not sure how that stuff wasn’t noticed before the customer took possession of the vehicle, that’s a pretty good case of lack of attention to detail or just not giving a rats posterior exhaust port.

I would think that when Ford was sourcing a manufacturer for these tops, that that source would have made the absolute best product that they could, to show Ford that they are indeed up to the challenge and task at hand.

So if these problems were evident in the pre-production samples provided to Ford, and Ford QA failed to catch any of these recent issues, then shame on Ford.

But again, I think Ford will get this worked out and take care of their customers.
 
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I would think that when Ford was sourcing a manufacturer for these tops, that that source would have made the absolute best product that they could, to show Ford that they are indeed up to the challenge and task at hand.

So if these problems were evident in the pre-production samples provided to Ford, and Ford QA failed to catch any of these recent issues, then shame on Ford.

But again, I think Ford will get this worked out and take care of their customers.
Preproduction samples sometimes don’t reflect what happens during mass production. Or there may have been excessive cost constraints applied. Or they picked a bad vendor.
 

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Preproduction samples sometimes don’t reflect what happens during mass production. Or there may have been excessive cost constraints applied. Or they picked a bad vendor.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too, maybe the manufacturer tried to cheapen the process to make more profit, and in the end came out with an inferior product. ;)
 

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Preproduction samples sometimes don’t reflect what happens during mass production. Or there may have been excessive cost constraints applied. Or they picked a bad vendor.
Does Ford treat their suppliers as badly as I’ve heard that FCA did? I think I’ve heard that they’re somewhere in the middle of the pack in that regards, but I may be misremembering.
 

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I would think that when Ford was sourcing a manufacturer for these tops, that that source would have made the absolute best product that they could, to show Ford that they are indeed up to the challenge and task at hand.

So if these problems were evident in the pre-production samples provided to Ford, and Ford QA failed to catch any of these recent issues, then shame on Ford.

But again, I think Ford will get this worked out and take care of their customers.
My understanding is that Webasto did well with pre-production samples. Their biggest problem was holding the quality as volume went up. There was no clear path to full production volume and good quality. That is what caused several of the Bronco delays. Ford sent engineers into the Webasto plant and are working on the issue, but it does not seem like they have a clear path to volume production until the 2023 model year (a little more than a year from now). They have informed order holders of the situation and encouraged them to switch to a soft top if they want their Bronco earlier.

I believe the problem is the equipment that Webasto uses. Ford is getting all new equipment and with the chip shortage, labor shortage and metal shortage, the machines, molds and automation are taking nearly a year to arrive.

It is a crappy situation for everyone. But Ford should be happy that it is not a design flaw.
 
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Now I just read that the rumor is that Webasto lost the contract and Ford has a new supplier......maybe Continental.

Webasto had a contract with FCA as well, but lost that one also.
 
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It's the old manufacturing joke.
Manufacturer: "What's wrong with these parts? Your samples were very good."
Supplier: "Samples are a different process than the actual part."
Manufacturer: "We'd like to order 100k samples then."
 
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