[aldo90731]

Canada new-vehicle sales are out.

There is a lot to see here:

• Total Canada market 2020 sales were down 20% from prior year
• FCA does not look good. It went from being the top-selling automaker in 2015 to fifth in 2020
• Hyundai-Kia outsold FCA for the first time ever in 2020
• Toyota has been gaining market share pretty steadily; it surpassed FCA in 2018 and has been widening its lead
• Subaru Canada continues to grow market share, similarly to Subaru USA
• Tesla now outsells Mitsubishi

We can speculate what are the root causes aflicting FCA. But I have seen a similar trend on FCA's JD Power Vehicle Dependability rankings, and in FCA's supplier satisfaction rankings, with those metrics deteriorating significantly after 2014.

The discontinuation of Journey and Caravan are going to make FCA's sales recovery in Canada quite difficult.

 

[Dave Z]

I took three things from FCA's Canadian numbers before seeing competitors' figures.

First, their reduced discounting, which was exceedingly high back in 2015, slammed sales. I think they'd mostly been buying sales with incentives, e.g. CVP.

Second, Canadians, for whatever reason, are not buying Chrysler Grand Caravans (WHYWHWY WHY Grand?!?!? Chrysler Caravan sounds good. Chrysler Grand Caravan as the CHEAP version of the Pacifica makes ZERO sense.) We saw this with the Neon, too. Renaming killed sales.

Third, Toyota is doing what Toyota always does... persevering and plugging away until one day they're in the top three.

GM had a huge increase. Ford had a mild increase. I suspect in both cases it was sales taken from Jeep, Ram, and Dodge. I wonder where Chrysler's minivan sales went - thin air, Kia, Honda, or Toyota?

 

[World14]

Chrysler Grand Caravan as the CHEAP version of the Pacifica makes ZERO sense.) We saw this with the Neon, too.

So every minivan should be starting at the same price? I'm confused about that line of yours.
Ever since 2017, the Grand Caravan was cheaper then the Pacifica. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to me even more now the Pacifica looks (cough cough ugly cough cough) way different then the original RU. But I'm not Canada soooooooooo lol

 

[Dave Z]

So every minivan should be starting at the same price? I'm confused about that line of yours.
Ever since 2017, the Grand Caravan was cheaper then the Pacifica. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to me even more now the Pacifica looks (cough cough ugly cough cough) way different then the original RU. But I'm not Canada soooooooooo lol

No. I am saying dropping the word Grand would have made sense when they moved it to Chrysler.

They have Chrysler Grand Caravan and Chrysler Pacifica. The word "Grand" should not be on the cheaper model.

If they'd kept the Dodge label, it might have kept selling well. I don't know whether the drop in sales was because of the name change or higher prices. But I suspect it was both. Some people really don't want a Chrysler because it has a higher-end aura to them. Dodge is more grounded.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

It seems that Canadians are rewarding consistency and reliability.

FCA in Canada has been a basket-case of strategies....none of which give Canadians faith in the company.

Not having a replacement for the Journey is horribly flawed, not just in Canada, but the US as well.

Chryslers built on Peugeot platforms will not fix the Canadian issues either.

 

[aldo90731]

Here are sales by make.

Yes, it appears FCA's decline in Canada are due primarily by a shrinking Dodge; the fact that Chrysler and Fiat are also trending down doesn't help. Ram's gains are not enough to compensate for the declines at Dodge; Jeep is basically flat.

VW outselling Dodge in Canada is shameful. In fact, several luxury brands now outsell Dodge. Sad.

Hyundai now matches Chevrolet; Kia and Mazda outsell Jeep.

 

[valiant67]

People have been complaining of price increases in Canada and people mock them. I guess we’re seeing the effect of those price increases. It appears Canadian customers aren’t seeing the value and are leaving DCA.

 

[5.7 Heaven]

I live in Canada. FCA has neglected the Canadian Market. Hyundai and Kia have stolen Chrysler and Dodge's lunch money. Where are the value-packed, stylish affordable models? Not everyone can afford or wants $30-50k Muscle cars, Jeeps and Trucks. Especially during a pandemic in a country where its government is introducing a Carbon Tax. I own a 19 Ram(DT) and 06 Mag R/T. I needed an affordable commuter vehicle last year. Had no choice, but to shop elsewhere (bye FCA). Ended up buying a new Mitsubishi Mirage. Why? It had a great warranty, good enough features (Carplay, AC), excellent fuel economy and didn't break the bank. Rebadged Pacificas, Classic Rams and Italian Jeeps aren't going to stop the bleeding. New affordable, FWD-based product for Dodge and/or Chrysler based on PSA platforms may be the saviour.

 

[Milkman123]

My last 2 Chryslers were such huge money pits I don't see them ever being in our household again, aside from my 79 D100 and whatever I decide to put my 440 in.

Unjustifiable price increses, poor reliability, poor customer service at both dealer and corporate levels. Extremely dated and poor quality products.

A lot of guys at work drive either Tacos and love them or the non car people are buying Hyundai's and love them.

The charger guys are tired of chasing front end clunks. The Ram guys are tired of their ticking engines being made fun of.

My family has a looooong history of Chrysler cars but the last 20 years have been hard slaps in the face.

I couldn't even give away my 2010 Charger.

 

[Mark Powers]

I took three things from FCA's Canadian numbers before seeing competitors' figures.

First, their reduced discounting, which was exceedingly high back in 2015, slammed sales. I think they'd mostly been buying sales with incentives, e.g. CVP.

Second, Canadians, for whatever reason, are not buying Chrysler Grand Caravans (WHYWHWY WHY Grand?!?!? Chrysler Caravan sounds good. Chrysler Grand Caravan as the CHEAP version of the Pacifica makes ZERO sense.) We saw this with the Neon, too. Renaming killed sales.

Third, Toyota is doing what Toyota always does... persevering and plugging away until one day they're in the top three.

GM had a huge increase. Ford had a mild increase. I suspect in both cases it was sales taken from Jeep, Ram, and Dodge. I wonder where Chrysler's minivan sales went - thin air, Kia, Honda, or Toyota?

Chrysler Grand Caravan in Canada have not hit the dealers lots yet....Still in transit! Hard to sell when they are not even on the lots or any advertising for them..

Remember Canada has less population than California!

 

[Mark Powers]

My last 2 Chryslers were such huge money pits I don't see them ever being in our household again, aside from my 79 D100 and whatever I decide to put my 440 in.

Unjustifiable price increses, poor reliability, poor customer service at both dealer and corporate levels. Extremely dated and poor quality products.

A lot of guys at work drive either Tacos and love them or the non car people are buying Hyundai's and love them.

The charger guys are tired of chasing front end clunks. The Ram guys are tired of their ticking engines being made fun of.

My family has a looooong history of Chrysler cars but the last 20 years have been hard slaps in the face.

I couldn't even give away my 2010 Charger.

Front end problems are the 05-10 lx cars...Newer ones dont have that problem...My 300 has 130,000 Miles and zero issues..My brother has a Challenger RT no issues we both drive a lot for work etc..His is a '17 with 85,000 miles and zero issues!

Funny Tacoma's have rusted frames,engine issues odd those are praised!

 

[aldo90731]

Toyota and Hyundai-Kia are the only major automakers to show slow, sustained growth.

Hyundai-Kia’s growth comes from expanding into new segments —Pallisade, Kona, Ioniq, etc., while heavily redesigning existing models —Sonata, Elantra, Tucson, etc.

In Toyota’s case, growth comes from slowly but steadily establishing RAV4 and Highlander as segment leaders, while holding on to Corolla, Camry and Avalon in their segments.

Yes, Tacoma has many issues, but it remains the segment leader by a wide margin. 4Runner and Tundra sell decently despite their antiquated underpinnings.

Toyota is planning to launch hybrid versions of every model. RAV4 hybrid has been a home run, thanks to a powertrain that delivers 50% better fuel economy for only a $1,500 (US) price increase. The all-new Sienna follows a similar formula. And reports are that upcoming Tundra, Tacoma and 4Runner will follow suit.

Holding reliability and resale constant allows Toyota to retain existing customers, while using superior fuel efficiency and value for money to attract new ones.

I still have to crunch US numbers, but Toyota sales show a similar overall pattern in Canada and Mexico.

 

[Milkman123]

Front end problems are the 05-10 lx cars...Newer ones dont have that problem...My 300 has 130,000 Miles and zero issues..My brother has a Challenger RT no issues we both drive a lot for work etc..His is a '17 with 85,000 miles and zero issues!

Funny Tacoma's have rusted frames,engine issues odd those are praised!

There's a RWD 18 GT Charger at work but the guy's been driving a loaner for a week, don't know what the problem is I don't really talk to him but I know he's not happy with the quality vs big money he spent for a v6 car.

I've not heard about frames rusting on the tacos, all vehicles tend to rust out when you live in the rust belt. The question is does the rust show up after 1 year or does it make 5+.

 

[valiant67]

There's a RWD 18 GT Charger at work but the guy's been driving a loaner for a week, don't know what the problem is I don't really talk to him but I know he's not happy with the quality vs big money he spent for a v6 car.

I've not heard about frames rusting on the tacos, all vehicles tend to rust out when you live in the rust belt. The question is does the rust show up after 1 year or does it make 5+.

Here's why you may not have heard much about the frame rust issues. Toyota took big steps to mitigate the issue depending on the truck: rustproofing, repair frame, replace frame, or buyback. They took a bad issue and took pretty good care of the customer.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

There's a RWD 18 GT Charger at work but the guy's been driving a loaner for a week, don't know what the problem is I don't really talk to him but I know he's not happy with the quality vs big money he spent for a v6 car.

I've not heard about frames rusting on the tacos, all vehicles tend to rust out when you live in the rust belt. The question is does the rust show up after 1 year or does it make 5+.

Toyota had a very famous frame rusting issue on multiple models, but replaced the frames free of charge.

Apparently, confidence in Toyota was not hurt too much.

 

[David S]

Toyota and Hyundai-Kia are the only major automakers to show slow, sustained growth.

Hyundai-Kia’s growth comes from expanding into new segments —Pallisade, Kona, Ioniq, etc., while heavily redesigning existing models —Sonata, Elantra, Tucson, etc.

In Toyota’s case, growth comes from slowly but steadily establishing RAV4 and Highlander as segment leaders, while holding on to Corolla, Camry and Avalon in their segments.

Yes, Tacoma has many issues, but it remains the segment leader by a wide margin. 4Runner and Tundra sell decently despite their antiquated underpinnings.

Toyota is planning to launch hybrid versions of every model. RAV4 hybrid has been a home run, thanks to a powertrain that delivers 50% better fuel economy for only a $1,500 (US) price increase. The all-new Sienna follows a similar formula. And reports are that upcoming Tundra, Tacoma and 4Runner will follow suit.

Holding reliability and resale constant allows Toyota to retain existing customers, while using superior fuel efficiency and value for money to attract new ones.

I still have to crunch US numbers, but Toyota sales show a similar overall pattern in Canada and Mexico.

Toyota sales have been essentially flat in the US. Hyundai sales are up substantially from pre recession levels.

Toyota Sales Figures – US Market

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

Hyundai Sales Figures – US Market

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

 

[Milkman123]

Toyota had a very famous frame rusting issue on multiple models, but replaced the frames free of charge.

Apparently, confidence in Toyota was not hurt too much.

A lot of us regret dumping our old corollas and civics for the chryslers. My 2010 Charger was the newest most expensive car I had bought and within 2 years I missed my 96 Cavalier that I got for free and literally didn't have to fix anything.

My friend finally retired his 2002 Corolla and has spent thousands trying to keep his Nitro on the road. The corolla was free and never broke.

I'm starting to see a pattern here.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

@Dave Z The Chrysler Grand Caravan hasn't sold any units because it hasn't been available. From what I've seen locally they've JUST started arriving on dealer lots now.

Canadians loved the value aspect of Dodge and Chrysler. The roads are full of Grand Caravans, Journeys, Darts, and Charger SXT's. With those models going into the grave and no replacements being put to the market, CDJR dealers literally have nothing to sell that Canadians want to buy.

All the dealer ads I see tell me they loaded up their lots with 2020 Dodge Grand Caravans while they could. And the discounting definitely took a hit. 2019s were selling new for the mid $20K's, all of a sudden I saw 2020's are being advertised for $35K.

 

[Dave Z]

I was unaware of the availability issue. The Grand Caravan was announced a while ago and there were some sales. THat would account for it.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I was unaware of the availability issue. The Grand Caravan was announced a while ago and there were some sales. THat would account for it.

Yep. Chrysler.ca didn't even have model and trim info live until late December. I have yet to see a single 2021 for either GC or Pacifica on a dealer lot here.