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Lab / track testing has proven to miss problems many times. Yes, there are sufficient numbers now to tell us something by 2030. As for mainstream cars and the value of one after the battery pack dies, we will get that 10-15 years after the first $25K MSRP BEV that sells well goes on sale, something that could happen within the next 5 years.. So any honest jury is out until at least 2035 on that question.

Any estimate on replacement cost is just that, an estimate, because we don't know supply and demand in 10-15 years.
No, perhaps you are not familiar with qualification testing that is routinely done to validate performance and life. One does not have to wait ten years in order to determine if batteries will last ten years. That's the whole point of validated testing - to get legitimate answers sooner. In this instance, they will run worst-case cycling of charges and discharges at temperature extremes, with vibration testing, to get an accurate idea of performance.
 

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No, perhaps you are not familiar with qualification testing that is routinely done to validate performance and life. One does not have to wait ten years in order to determine if batteries will last ten years. That's the whole point of validated testing - to get legitimate answers sooner. In this instance, they will run worst-case cycling of charges and discharges at temperature extremes, with vibration testing, to get an accurate idea of performance.
That testing isn't as good as real world experience, it has proven to be wrong in many cases. The testing only gives us an estimate of battery life.

As for the residual value and cost of changing a battery 10 to 15 years down the road, that is far more difficult to estimate.
 

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That testing isn't as good as real world experience, it has proven to be wrong in many cases. The testing only gives us an estimate of battery life.

As for the residual value and cost of changing a battery 10 to 15 years down the road, that is far more difficult to estimate.
References, please. Specific to this technology or as close as possible.
I've done battery testing several times in my career, and the life and cycle testing proved to be spot-on to field experience.
It's easy to say something is invalid without any data.
 

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References, please. Specific to this technology or as close as possible.
I've done battery testing several times in my career, and the life and cycle testing proved to be spot-on to field experience.
It's easy to say something is invalid without any data.
It is easy to say something is valid without any data, and you haven't got a million 10 year old BEVs to show me. The burden of proof is on the new technology. I will believe the predictions are accurate when experience proves them to be accurate, and not before.
 

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It is easy to say something is valid without any data, and you haven't got a million 10 year old BEVs to show me. The burden of proof is on the new technology. I will believe the predictions are accurate when experience proves them to be accurate, and not before.
And yet you condemn them or doubt them with NO data or reference that lends credence to do so. You can be certain that the testing has been done, that it is valid and representative - but it is proprietary. Again, show me something credible that challenges that life and cycle testing are invalid models.
 

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And yet you condemn them or doubt them with NO data or reference that lends credence to do so. You can be certain that the testing has been done, that it is valid and representative - but it is proprietary. Again, show me something credible that challenges that life and cycle testing are invalid models.
Every recall with redesigned parts is a sign that testing was insufficient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #127 ·
Failure of the secondary battery for Start/Stop on Jeep vehicles is well documented.
 
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Every recall with redesigned parts is a sign that testing was insufficient.
This is not true. There are many other reasons.
Do you have any manufacturing or engineering experience?
 
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A new study lays to rest the tired argument that electric vehicles aren’t much cleaner than internal combustion vehicles. Over the life cycle of an EV — from digging up the materials needed to build it to eventually laying the car to rest — it will release fewer greenhouse gas emissions than a gas-powered car, the research found. That holds true globally, whether an EV plugs into a grid in Europe with a larger share of renewables, or a grid in India that still relies heavily on coal.
The report estimates the emissions from medium-sized EVs registered in 2021 in either India, China, the US, or Europe — countries that make up 70 percent of new car sales globally and are representative of other markets across the world, the ICCT says. Lifetime emissions for an EV in Europe are between 66 and 69 percent lower compared to that of a gas-guzzling vehicle, the analysis found. In the US, an EV produces between 60 to 68 percent fewer emissions. In China, which uses more coal, an EV results in between 37 to 45 percent fewer emissions. In India, it’s between 19 to 34 percent lower.
 

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Discussion Starter · #130 ·

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A report from the International Council on Clean Transport.....no agenda there, right?

This report is as useful as an Exxon report on how electric vehicles emit more greenhouse gases.
You can't just do that every time you don't like the facts that are presented and expect anyone to take you seriously.
 

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A report from the International Council on Clean Transport.....no agenda there, right?

This report is as useful as an Exxon report on how electric vehicles emit more greenhouse gases.
Please elaborate on why you think there is an agenda, with references.
Looks like the ICCT was the whistleblower for the e
Biased toward being able to breathe.
 
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Discussion Starter · #133 ·
If you cannot see their agenda on their website, then I cannot help anyone so blind.
 
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If you cannot see their agenda on their website, then I cannot help anyone so blind.
You've had the facts spelled out in front of you, but you continue to spew crazy theories that everyone has an agenda. There have been multiple studies done that prove correlation between human activity and climate change and prove the effectiveness of BEVs in reducing emissions.

"If you are too stupid or lazy not to look, then that is your fault." - Erik Latranyi
 

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Discussion Starter · #135 ·
You've had the facts spelled out in front of you, but you continue to spew crazy theories that everyone has an agenda. There have been multiple studies done that prove correlation between human activity and climate change and prove the effectiveness of BEVs in reducing emissions.

"If you are too stupid or lazy not to look, then that is your fault." - Erik Latranyi
Do not call me crazy. That is pushing boundaries here.

You do not need to agree with me, but to denigrate my position as crazy proves you have no factual standing.

You are allowed to believe whatever you like. That is true freedom.

Freedom is not calling people you disagree with "crazy" or other names.
 

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Do not call me crazy. That is pushing boundaries here.

You do not need to agree with me, but to denigrate my position as crazy proves you have no factual standing.

You are allowed to believe whatever you like. That is true freedom.

Freedom is not calling people you disagree with "crazy" or other names.
I called your theory crazy. You don't get to play the victim when it's convenient for you after you've called people blind for not agreeing with your "agenda" stance and called people stupid if they don't look at changes in packaging on consumer products.

You have repeatedly dismissed scientific evidence because you don't like the findings. You are free to believe any far-out theories you want to believe, but no one should get to pollute other people's air just because they seem to have an issue with science. I've had the same discussion with anti-maskers. If you don't want to wear a mask, okay, but when you're around me, you will wear one if you are unvaccinated and have symptoms. Freedom does not involve making other people sick because you're too lazy or inconvenienced to wear a mask. You also don't really need to be having any of these discussions if you can't back up your whole "agenda" theme with concrete, proven facts.

We're talking in circles here because literally hundreds of studies could be cited and you'd dismiss every single one of them as having some kind of agenda, political bias, or something else. You do not get to deny reality, act like other people are the blind ones, and expect to be taken seriously.

Also - "no factual standing." Are you actually serious with that BS? Freedom isn't denying science and making up alternative science and getting to preach it like it's reality. What has this world come to?
 

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Discussion Starter · #137 ·
I called your theory crazy. You don't get to play the victim when it's convenient for you after you've called people blind for not agreeing with your "agenda" stance and called people stupid if they don't look at changes in packaging on consumer products.

You have repeatedly dismissed scientific evidence because you don't like the findings. You are free to believe any far-out theories you want to believe, but no one should get to pollute other people's air just because they seem to have an issue with science. I've had the same discussion with anti-maskers. If you don't want to wear a mask, okay, but when you're around me, you will wear one if you are unvaccinated and have symptoms. Freedom does not involve making other people sick because you're too lazy or inconvenienced to wear a mask. You also don't really need to be having any of these discussions if you can't back up your whole "agenda" theme with concrete, proven facts.

We're talking in circles here because literally hundreds of studies could be cited and you'd dismiss every single one of them as having some kind of agenda, political bias, or something else. You do not get to deny reality, act like other people are the blind ones, and expect to be taken seriously.

Also - "no factual standing." Are you actually serious with that BS? Freedom isn't denying science and making up alternative science and getting to preach it like it's reality. Jesus Christ, what has this world come to?
I called your theory crazy. You don't get to play the victim when it's convenient for you after you've called people blind for not agreeing with your "agenda" stance and called people stupid if they don't look at changes in packaging on consumer products.

You have repeatedly dismissed scientific evidence because you don't like the findings. You are free to believe any far-out theories you want to believe, but no one should get to pollute other people's air just because they seem to have an issue with science. I've had the same discussion with anti-maskers. If you don't want to wear a mask, okay, but when you're around me, you will wear one if you are unvaccinated and have symptoms. Freedom does not involve making other people sick because you're too lazy or inconvenienced to wear a mask. You also don't really need to be having any of these discussions if you can't back up your whole "agenda" theme with concrete, proven facts.

We're talking in circles here because literally hundreds of studies could be cited and you'd dismiss every single one of them as having some kind of agenda, political bias, or something else. You do not get to deny reality, act like other people are the blind ones, and expect to be taken seriously.

Also - "no factual standing." Are you actually serious with that BS? Freedom isn't denying science and making up alternative science and getting to preach it like it's reality. Jesus Christ, what has this world come to?
Global Warming: New Study Says Models Exaggerate Warming By Up To 45% (investors.com)

Peer reviewed. But you wish to ignore things like this because it does not fit your religion....I mean beliefs.

That is the REAL problem I see....people on both sides are so invested into being "correct" that they refuse to see anything contrary.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 

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Global Warming: New Study Says Models Exaggerate Warming By Up To 45% (investors.com)

Peer reviewed. But you wish to ignore things like this because it does not fit your religion....I mean beliefs.

That is the REAL problem I see....people on both sides are so invested into being "correct" that they refuse to see anything contrary.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
I’m not religious but thanks anyway.

I will look at the link you shared and also find some to prove my argument, as long as you don’t immediately label it as being part of an agenda. Are you capable of that?
 

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Do not call me crazy. That is pushing boundaries here.

You do not need to agree with me, but to denigrate my position as crazy proves you have no factual standing.

You are allowed to believe whatever you like. That is true freedom.

Freedom is not calling people you disagree with "crazy" or other names.
And yet you have called people (not their positions) stupid and lazy in the thread about Shrinkflation.
How do you reconcile that?
 

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If you cannot see their agenda on their website, then I cannot help anyone so blind.
Please. Try. Show me how they are biased and toward what end.
 
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