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Nope...I'm extremely biased against hybrids and electrics and intend to stay that way. Added cost, complexity, and janky technology that invites an entire horde of problems to the table while offering very little, if any gains....NOPE.

A few measly mpgs mean little to me, and all the blah blah about cleaner emissions and enviro friendliness is literally ZERO benefit to me. Hybrids and electrics have yet to prove themselves a clear leap ahead of pure ICE engines. To gain something you also have to give up something in this case. EFI--now that's a clear example of superior technology where there were pretty much only gains and virtually no detractors. Anything that can be accomplished with a hybrid can be accomplished by developing your ICE, or upgrading to a bigger motor, without the soon to die batteries and added electronics. Tell me this: What happens when you try to hot rod your e-torq Hemi? Fighting invasive computers is a problem right now, and its a known fact that ever complex electronics are the #1 killer of longevity for modern cars. You really want MORE of this? For basic grocery getters like the pacifica and camry...fine. But on anything with an enthusiast following like rams, jeeps, muscle cars...stick to pure ICE technology. I'm all for moving things forward and newer better cars. But unless you can guarantee me that I have everything to gain and nothing to lose with newer tech, I'm not sold. With anything 'green', its guaranteed that youll give up something somewhere and pay dearly for the privilege. If not in cash money, it will be driving dynamics, styling, tenability...some toll will be extracted and it will be heavy.
 
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  1. Lexus already tried positioning hybrid as a performance application on its flagship sedan to compete against German V12s and failed.
  2. Honda tried positioning hybrid as the top-dog Accord, quicker than the V6, and failed.
  3. Porsche and other luxury automakers are trying to position hybrid as a performance application on their high-end vehicles with limited impact on the market overall.
Each time hybrid has failed as a performance application is because consumers were stuck in a value proposition defined by fuel economy, and did not understand the value proposition of hybrid as a performance application.

It could be that FCA has better luck applying hybrids to trucks this time around. But both DCX and GM already tried that ten years ago and failed.

The road to widespread consumer adoption of hybrids is littered with too many failures already for FCA to not include a more aggressive communications campaign this time.
FCA has pretty much forsaken most mainstream, non enthusiast products. Hybrids and electrics pretty much appeal to that crowd exclusively, which is why Toyota, Nissan and Tesla are the only ones having any success at selling them. Profitability...who even knows? It seems to me that the 'winners' have already been picked by some overlords so good luck getting a straight answer that hasn't been warped by a billion layers of social engineering.

For most, perception is reality and the perception that hybrid is prius and prius is only for eggheads is what persists among gearheads. That's my bias, personally. Ill freely admit that since I believe theres a lot more truth to it than not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
For most, perception is reality and the perception that hybrid is prius and prius is only for eggheads is what persists among gearheads. That's my bias, personally. Ill freely admit that since I believe theres a lot more truth to it than not.
You are not alone. You are one among millions who share that same perception. Thus the point of this article.
 

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You've never driven a Lexus hybrid, if you believe muscle and hybrids don't go together. Aldo pointed out the Lexus hybrid/muscle proposition.

Prius is reportedly profitable. Of course they have the largest market share for that type of car. It's no worse than a four-cylinder prior-generation (2017, say) Camry.

Hybrids and electrics have yet to prove themselves a clear leap ahead of pure ICE engines.
Not really. Much as I dislike Elon Musk, the Tesla is almost a match for the 707 horsepower Hellcat cars, with much better “economy.” For a standard commuter car, Prius is very hard to beat; most people don’t care much about performance and it provides “enough.” Toyota Highlander gives you 30 mpg in a large SUV.
 

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Nope...I'm extremely biased against hybrids and electrics and intend to stay that way. Added cost, complexity, and janky technology that invites an entire horde of problems to the table while offering very little, if any gains....NOPE.
Added complexity? The number of moving parts in an all electric vehicle is reduced significantly.
 

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Not really. Much as I dislike Elon Musk, the Tesla is almost a match for the 707 horsepower Hellcat cars, with much better “economy.” For a standard commuter car, Prius is very hard to beat; most people don’t care much about performance and it provides “enough.” Toyota Highlander gives you 30 mpg in a large SUV.
Roadster in 2020 is supposedly getting 0-60 in 1.9 seconds and 620 miles of range. Those are some highly impressive numbers if true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
The bottom line is: it is always going to cost more to mount two motors instead of one.

From that very basic premise, OEMs have no choice but to make hybrids deliver multiple consumer benefits beyond fuel economy, if hybrid technology is ever going to justify its added cost.
 

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The bottom line is: it is always going to cost more to mount two motors instead of one.

From that very basic premise, OEMs have no choice but to make hybrids deliver multiple consumer benefits beyond fuel economy, if hybrid technology is ever going to justify its added cost.
Until we get to the point where we can just attach a Mr Fusion and call it a day. :D (Eh, @Mr. Fusion ?? :p)
 

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I’ve read a few articles regarding using algae to produce ethanol, as well as other biofuels. There is great potential benefit to this method, as well as many logistical and developmental hurdles to overcome. Nonetheless, it’s food for thought.

NASA Uses Algae to Turn Sewage Into Fuel (at https://www.space.com/7679-nasa-algae-turn-sewage-fuel.html )

Biofuels from algae: challenges and potential (at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3152439/ )

Recent progress and future challenges in algal biofuel production (at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5054820/ )
Thought I would add one more article to help further flesh out the topic. This one focuses on what you might call "Ethanol's Big Brother".....Butanol:
Could Butanol be our new alternative to fossil fuels? (at http://www.euronews.com/2018/04/23/could-butanol-be-our-new-alternative-to-fossil-fuels )
 

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Hybrids are the best option right now. You’re generating your own electricity and using less fuel. I wouldn’t mind owning one if the price was affordable. I love electricity and electric motors, but unless we can freely charge an EV via sun or wind (or something of the like) it’s never going to stay cheap. Wait until the road population tips to a majority of EV’s and see how cheap it will be to charge one. All those “free” charging stations will be happy to take your debit or visa while you shop. Electricity rates in my area are getting ready to double in the next couple of years and it’s only going to get worse as years progress. I’d like to see a new fuel/power source to be honest.
 

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A few measly mpgs mean little to me, and all the blah blah about cleaner emissions and enviro friendliness is literally ZERO benefit to me.
Make sure you speak loud enough for people to hear you while my daughter has an asthma attack during a high ozone day.
 

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Added complexity? The number of moving parts in an all electric vehicle is reduced significantly.
Two drive systems? Two separate cooling systems? A total nebula of added electronics? That's 'hybrids'. Yes, a pure electric theoretically can be simpler, mechanically. But mechanical parts are proven durable and easy to service. Electronics? Tangled web of mystery. Lets see if its still viable 50 years later, like an old A body is still today.
 

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You've never driven a Lexus hybrid, if you believe muscle and hybrids don't go together. Aldo pointed out the Lexus hybrid/muscle proposition.

Prius is reportedly profitable. Of course they have the largest market share for that type of car. It's no worse than a four-cylinder prior-generation (2017, say) Camry.



Not really. Much as I dislike Elon Musk, the Tesla is almost? a match for the 707 horsepower Hellcat cars, with much better “economy.” For a standard commuter car, Prius is very hard to beat; most people don’t care much about performance and it provides “enough.” Toyota Highlander gives you 30 mpg in a large SUV.
Lexus, 'muscle'? Not a chance. 'speed' alone doesn't make 'muscle'...otherwise, a super exotic sports car is 'muscle'. Muscle is as much the intangibles and attitude as actual performance.

'Reportedly' profitable. There may be truth to that since Toyota owns that market. BUT, theyre also pushing an agenda. Would you really expect them to come clean if it were a failure? The main opposition to hybrids is the attitude that everyone is supposed to submit to being on board with them. So no, I don't trust Toyota or any hybrid/electric supporters any further than I can throw them. Youll never hear enthusiasts of any other kind of car suggest that 'everyone' needs to be on board. In fact, theyre more of an exculsive mindset.
 

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Make sure you speak loud enough for people to hear you while my daughter has an asthma attack during a high ozone day.
That sucks, as do all medical issues. Every spring, I'm miserable for at least two months from tree pollen and I'm NOT alone. I pretty much cant spend much time in anyones house who has cats since Ive had asthma attacks from that...all the scarier since I don't actually have asthma and don't carry an inhaler. Can I expect cats and trees to be exterminated?
 

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That sucks, as do all medical issues. Every spring, I'm miserable for at least two months from tree pollen and I'm NOT alone. I pretty much cant spend much time in anyones house who has cats since Ive had asthma attacks from that...all the scarier since I don't actually have asthma and don't carry an inhaler. Can I expect cats and trees to be exterminated?
That's inhumane - cats are alive and trees provide oxygen and air purification. On the other hand and in an extreme future scenario, you can expect humans to be exterminated by the toxic fumes if the pollution is not under control. Cars are also man made while trees and cats are not - allergies have always been an issue, pollution is something we caused and something we can fix.

Sorry if you don't like electric or hybrid vehicles, but they are clearly going to be the future. The benefits far outweighs your personal preferences. I don't like autonomous cars and they are coming too. Other people have referenced the transition from horses to cars.
 

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Not really. Much as I dislike Elon Musk, the Tesla is almost a match for the 707 horsepower Hellcat cars, with much better “economy.” For a standard commuter car, Prius is very hard to beat; most people don’t care much about performance and it provides “enough.” Toyota Highlander gives you 30 mpg in a large SUV.
Yes, that crazy awd version is 'almost' a match for a Hellcat...provided the HC driver is a total noob and the HC is limited to the crappy stock tires. Mr Tesla has the computer doing all the heavy lifting, so if he has a pulse, he gets the same results. AND, that Tesla is around $180K to the HC's $70K. Gonna take a LOT to make up that gap in price.

Prius is just fine if you view a car as a necessary evil. Toyota has courted that demographic and served them...more power to them. I have a problem with the tax credits for that, yet I get punished if I buy a Challenger. The winners shouldn't be pre-picked. And if I were to downgrade to a prius Id be hating life. You cant explain the gearhead lifestyle, all the friends you make on the way and all the fun you have to some bean counting beauracrat that only cares about some political agenda. And THAT, my friends is where most of the real backlash against hybrids comes from.
 

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I've seen dozens of videos of Tesla Model S beating Hellcats and other supercars... it happens quite often.
 

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That sucks, as do all medical issues. Every spring, I'm miserable for at least two months from tree pollen and I'm NOT alone. I pretty much cant spend much time in anyones house who has cats since Ive had asthma attacks from that...all the scarier since I don't actually have asthma and don't carry an inhaler. Can I expect cats and trees to be exterminated?
:rolleyes: Comparing natural allergies to the physical effects of man made pollutants is being obtuse at best. Hey, I mean why should I expect to have my casual life impacted just because it causes a bit of pain, suffering or death for someone I don't know amiright. :cool:
 
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