[95chryslercirrus]

Today, I was driving my 1995 Chrysler Cirrus w/ the 2.5L V6 and I parked it to go into somewhere for less than a minute, came back out, and realized that my radio had been reset upon start up. Presets, clock, everything. Though it was weird, I never thought anything of it. About 10 minutes later, my check engine light came on. When I arrived at my next destination, I did the "key dance" and got code 47, battery charging voltage out of range during the specified conditions that allow the code to be set. Confused, I drove the car around for the day finishing my business. But I noticed something weird, my transmisson was shifting differently, as if it had lost all of it's learning on how I drive, harsh shifts in places I haven't had them since I had the TCM replaced. Also, the code came back one other time before the day was out after restarting my car and loosing radio information again. I am convinced that these are all related problems, and I am lost on which direction to go. I checked for the obvious things, loose and corroded battery terminals, blown fuses, and loose connections with the alternator. Charging voltage is 14.5v at idle, 14.6v under full load at idle. Battery voltage is 12.49 when everything is off. I cannot imagine whatever is going on being good to the sensitive computers and controllers inside my Cirrus. Any suggestions and/or diagnostic procedures to find the cause? Thanks for reading and any help in advance.

Additional Information: I have no aftermarket accessories, lights, wiring, stereo equipment, etc added onto this car's electrical system, yet. Everything is at its stock configuration. I have no service records, so I do not know if/when the alternator was replaced. Battery is an Interstate bought in 2011.

 

[ImperialCrown]

Make sure that the underhood fuses are fully seated and that the PDC (+) stud is clean and tight. The battery ground to body and engine must also be secure.Check the connections underneath the PDC (power distribution center) for looseness or corrosion. You are losing main battery power somewhere for the module/radio memory to be lost.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Just checked, everything is clear. Fuses are secure, and the connections underneath the fuse distribution block are secure also. Engine and body grounds are tight and free of dirt, grime, corrosion, etc. this engine bay is CLEAN.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

I seem to have fixed the problem. I cleaned all the connections possible in the engine bay and use dielectric grease in the plugs, but now my transmission is shifting all weird. Like harsh shifts between 2nd and 3rd that developed when things were acting weird. Is it possible to reset the TCM by fuse pulling? Or is it scan tool only? If so, is a re-learn required? Sorry for delayed update. It's been a busy week.

 

[ImperialCrown]

A power-down 'may' reset things, it is the first thing to try.
If not, a DRB III (or equivalent) scan tool can reset the TCM and perform quicklearn. Some modules used non-volatile memory for these things that required a 'hard' reset by scan tool only.

 

[valiant67]

You can only reset it with a scan tool as only earlier cars erased the TCM memory at a battery disconnect. The transmission should relearn as you drive though using a scan tool for a quick learn would get rid of the roughness quicker.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

I pulled the fuse for the TCM for a few minutes last night and it shifted perfectly and smoothly throughout today. Then as I drove around more towards the end of the day, it seems to be getting rough again. It's like it clunks into gear, emphasizing the "clunk" you hear and feel when the TCM drops it into 3rd roughly. What now? I don't own a DRB-III scan tool, and I have no idea what other scan tool is equivalent to the protocol this cars computer uses that's cheaper than $2,000+

 

[ImperialCrown]

ATF+4 on the dipstick is OK? The latest part # revision for the TCM is 4606105. There should be a label underneath the housing with this information. If it is a different #, I would get it flashed to the new # and have them perform a quicklearn before returning the car to you.
It is far cheaper to have them use their DRB III than to buy your own, but I am sorry that this car keeps nickel and diming you.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Yeah, AFT+4 is perfect. I check it every time I check the oil, which is at every fuel up. No burning smells, and the fluid is as red as it comes out of the bottle of ATF+4. When I got the car back in August of 2012, a day after driving it off the dealership's lot, the TCM failed. It worked just fine for the test drive and whatnot, but the next day, it went into limp mode home and stayed there. $400 later, I haven't had a huccup with the transmission until this week when the electrical system went all haywire. I also had to replace the master cylinder when I got the car because the brake unexpectedly went to the floor and I almost lost my life trying to stop at an intersection. I also did an AC overhaul, paid a mechanic to do a system evac, shrader valve replacement, vacuum down and fill. AC works perfect now, and it defrosts the windows inside well. Froze me out of the car in the fall. Then there's the EGR valve, and I replaced an idler pulley. The suspension makes a clunking noise over the smallest bumps, and I have yet to get under the car and shake stuff around looking for any loose parts. The muffler and tires also need replaced. I plan on removing the dashboard to replace the heater core. I can slightly smell coolant sometimes when I run the heater, and my passenger air vent has quit working. Most of this I consider small repairs that occur to every car that's 18 years old. But not repalcing the distributor multiple times in a cars life is kinda superfluous to me. After I got the car, I read many reviews online describing catastrophic transmission failures, no starts, suspension system failures, and fuel pump problems. While my vehicle has had all of its recal work done (according to dealer records) I am afraid my distributor may fail. Which is $800 and is a dealer recommended part. There are also obvious signs that the 41Te transmission has been removed from the car mutiple times. The mounts show that the bolts have been in other places within the aluminum casted mount to the engine. There are also multiple markings with a pencil in the transmission section of the user manual, highlighting the fluid type, and how to properly check the fluid and how not to overfil with smiley faces written everywhere. I remain hopeful that this car will do me well as long as I perform maintainence correctly and on schedule, but it's always in the back of my mind that this car line has caused most of it's owners to endure a living hell, eating their wallets whole. I am not sure what to do, but my car just refused to start today, and after trying a few times, it started and misfired until I stepped on the gas. It was was if nothing happened afterwards. It's done this about 3 times this week, and sometiems shudders when I am driving. No parts store can read my computer, and I don't have $50 to shell out to the dealer every time I have a concern arise or the car hiccups. Has anyone had luck with any scan tools, besides DRB III, connecting with this unique Chrysler interface of the years 95-97? I'd be willing to go as far as a few hundred to get a tool to work with this OBD-II protocol and can look at all the modules on the car.

I'm sorry if I am rambling. Just sharing my concerns for all to read and seeking advice, I guess.

I did not find the sticker you decribed, would it be on the TCM itself? I found the reman sticker.
P/N: R4606105AB
S/N: 1669518
Date: 0821

The PCM has a reman sticker, also. If you would like me to get you those numbers, I can. I see the firmware revision you listed in the part number for the TCM. Also, there are external orange wire and a blue wire with a white stripe going from the PCM and TCM harnesses to the throttle body.

 

[ImperialCrown]

You probably have the latest PCM/TCM revisions. The DRB III would do everything, but there are aftermarket scan tools like OTC Genisys, Equus, Auto X-ray and Snap-On that might do some (but not all) PCM/TCM test and functions. Do some research into what is out there for sale and what it can do. A used capable scan tool might be out there.
You have the underdash data link connector but are still OBD 1, correct? This is difficult, because this car is transitional to OBD 2, but isn't OBD 2. Most scanners I see are engine only.
A PC-based scan tool with an optional 'enhanced interface' to be used with TCM's could be a consideration. You don't need NGC or CAN-bus systems. Yours is a PCI/SCI bus system. The older systems may be dropping in price as the newer systems become more popular.
The intermittent no-start may have to be figured out first. Shudder and misfire isn't good. It may be a spark (secondary ignition?) or fuel supply problem.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

I believe so. I do know that it is an OBD-II connector, but there is a lot of debate out there of whether or not it's OBD-I or OBD-II with an uncommon BUS when you search the internet. Most answers say it's true OBD-II, but doesn't communicate on the same standard. Also, the OBD-I and OBD-II scanners couldn't connect at the parts store, and they were using a $600 scanner that advertised that it "Connects to Any Make, Model, Year with OBD-II or OBD-I Systems" as the sales point. I have yet to see how emissions testing is done on this vehicle in this state, because if it's an OBD-II connector, they try to pass emissions with communicating with the computer, they don't do smog. If there aren't codes, it passes. If they cannot connect to the computer or there are codes in the system, then it fails.

Thanks for telling me which BUS system my modules communicate on. Makes it easier to search for a tool using that interface.

I am not sure where to go on the no start/rough start. Because there are so many things it could be (stuck EGR, stuck solenoids, stuck IACV etc) and my computer isn't giving me any insight. I have no codes. When I start it, it runs for a second and dies. If I try again, it runs rough, shakes, and misfires. When I step on the accelerator pedal (not floor it) the engine revs up to about 2,000RPM and then runs like nothing happened, every time.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Symptoms are often associated with a bad MAP sensor or a bad TPS. You can at least check the TPS with a multimeter. With ignition ON - engine off, from center pin to one of the outer wires is about 0.7V at throttle closed and about 4 volts at wide open throttle. Voltage should sweep smoothly up when you open the throttle. If either voltage extreme is far off, or there is jerkiness in the reading, either the sensor is bad or the wiring is bad.

MAP sensor can be tested the same way, but requires a hand vacuum pump to hold at specific vacuum levels at which to measure the voltage.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Are voltages/pins the same with the MAP sensor plug? If not, what is the procedure for testing that? I do have a hand vacuum pump. One of the best things in my tool box, especially for carburetor work.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

I don't have the pinout handy, but one wire is ground, one is 5V (approximately, could read 4.8v) and one is signal. Measure signal to ground, and it will be a negative slope of vacuum vs voltage - it will be on the high end of the 5V scale at high vacuum, and as vacuum drops, voltage will drop down to about 1.6V or so. Somewhere on this site is a graph or table with the values. It will be fairly linear.

 

[ImperialCrown]

Probe the 3 wire terminals on each sensor. One is 5 volts. One is ground (close to 0 volts) and one is 'signal'.
The signal on the TPS should vary smoothly with throttle opening. The signal with MAP should vary smoothly with intake manifold vacuum (or applied vacuum).

The wiring diagram and wire colors are in figure 5 here:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c15280089a44

 

[95chryslercirrus]

I checked the TPS and signal was .80 volts at closed (idle) and 3.98 at wide open. Ground was 0.02 volts (weird?) and power was 5.36 volts. There are no "dead spots" or weird voltage spikes/drops when opening slowly in between, it varies smoothly.

The wire colors for the 'signal' wire are different than that of what the diagram states. Though, it looks as if someone has replaced this wire in the past. It's running externally directly to the PCM, and so is a wire going from the TCM to the clutch pack.

Where can I find the MAP sensor to be exact? Should I need to take apart anything?

Check engine light came on again... code 32. I thought we had dealt with this one already...

 

[ImperialCrown]

MAP should be the 3-wire plug on the passenger side intake manifold.
This was a new Mopar (or supposedly OEM) EGR valve?
0.2 volts is probably OK for a sensor ground. There is always a voltage drop through the PCM and back to the battery. The distributed PCM grounds to the body are clean and tight?

 

[Bob Lincoln]

Although those signal voltages are correct, 5.36 volts is a little high. Usually it will be just under 5V. But it seems that you're getting the correct signal.

Don't know where your MAP sensor is. On K-cars from the late 80s and 90s, it's on the passenger side of the firewall. Look for any device that has a single vacuum hose and a 3-wire electrical plug, only.

 

[95chryslercirrus]

Yes. I made sure the grounds were clean and tight, my PCM and TCM also receive ground through the plate that bolts them to the body of the car.

Supposedly new EGR valve AND transducer valve. I am not sure what is setting off the code 32 after replacing the only two things that sets the code off...

I found the MAP sensor. It's bolted directly into my upper intake manifold. Sadly, I have NO idea how to test it manually, since the whole sensor bolts INTO the upper manifold. It does have the three wire configuration.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

You would remove it to test it. But you can probably leave the electrical connector plugged in and use your pump on the vacuum port.

A code 32 can be triggered by a perfectly functioning EGR valve, if the orifice under it gets clogged shut with carbon buildup. This is a common problem on Toyota 4-cylinder engines with high mileage. The carbon hardens so much that it has to be drilled and scraped out, not just dissolve with carb cleaner. If the idle does not change or stumble when you lift the EGR stem up with a pair of needlenose pliers, the orifice is plugged.

Note that this situation does not cause any poor operation, just the code.