[JeepandRams]

Did they, or does Car and Driver want to create a "controversy"? Literally fake news.

Quote from the article: "told Car and Driver in a written statement responding to our request for comment on the issue"

So they are planning to create an "issue", gathering "comments" and then pretending like they are writing the article because someone demanded something, when it was them all along, the guy just agreed with them, but he didn't seem to demand anything from his own accord.

Want to bet other manufacturers prompted this? Bad optics. This should have been fixed before coming out with new Grand Cherokee instead of doubling down on it. If you are explaining or justifying, you are losing.

 

[Tomguy]

I am not of Native American descent, so I have no opinion on it from that perspective. From the perspective of someone who loves the JGC, who owned one, and will likely be replacing his POS Pacifica with another one, it's just a car name. Car names come and go. Who cares? New generation, perfect time for a renaming.

It would be foolish to think that there are people who do not care that Jeep is using the name of an American culture and putting it on a vehicle. It would be equally foolish to do nothing about it if those people have voiced concern over it.

Forget money. If Stellantis wants to do an actual outreach, give Cherokees to Cherokee nation. Let them give them to their members most in need. Reach out, find out how much they need, and provide them. Anyone can throw money at a problem to make it go away and America is tired of the whole "Money is the solution" BS. Actions speak louder than money or words.

Otherwise, the Jeep Dragon and Grand Dragon sound just as good to me, because a name is a name but the vehicle speaks for itself.

 

[codypet]

And they said that FCA did not consult them when they were bringing back the name for the KL Cherokee.

Probably thought they didn't need to since the Grand Cherokee was a continuous use.

Jeep Vega.

I bet the theta would have a bad reputation. But everyone would love to squeeze the gamma through some tight spots.

The Vega would have a bad reputation from the Chevy rust buckets.

 

[codypet]

Tom Bodett is very disappointed that you didn't stay at a MOTEL-6

Hey look at that! Our friend the 2nd gen minivan.

 

[77 Monaco Brougham]

Hey look at that! Our friend the 2nd gen minivan.

I noticed that too...but...God forbid anyone should ever have the word "minivan" poison their lips!

This commercial just drives the point home that motoring may not have changed as much as we think it has.
In spite of all the cosmetic and sheet metal changes, I'm convinced a person from the 1920's would still recognize the typical CUV / SUV as an automobile not too different from the tall boxy sedan he has...such as this 1929 Plymouth!

 

[serpens]

Want to bet other manufacturers prompted this? Bad optics. This should have been fixed before coming out with new Grand Cherokee instead of doubling down on it. If you are explaining or justifying, you are losing.

I don't think you have to rely on a conspiracy theory involving other automakers to understand how this came about. Jeep should've seen this coming years and years ago and done the right thing.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

I don't think you have to rely on a conspiracy theory involving other automakers to understand how this came about. Jeep should've seen this coming years and years ago and done the right thing.

I think at least equal blame lies at the feet of the Cherokee Nation for not saying anything....and they still have no official position on this. Everything we are discussing is the OPINION of one man, not an agreed upon request by the Cherokee Nation.

 

[JeepandRams]

While everything Erik says is true, it’s still really bad optics. It really doesn’t even matter what the Cherokees think, this new generation of young people won’t accept using ethnic groups as brand names. This “woke” thinking is now part of our culture and going against it is a fool’s errand for any mass market brand. FCA has a blind spot about political culture, they shouldn’t have run the Springsteen ad and now this. The sooner they starting working on changing the names the less damage. They should have quietly started working on this years ago but now it’s turning into a public discussion across the internet.

 

[World14]

this new generation of young people

As a 23 year old member of this "younger generation", I did not ask for this lmao

 

[JeepandRams]

As a 23 year old member of this "younger generation", I did not ask for this lmao

But enough will that it makes this a bad business decision. If you are explaining or justifying, you are losing. Creating any reason for customers to “cross you off the list” is foolish.

 

[Dave Z]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, at this point.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't, at this point.

Well, then they better not use Dakota and they must change Mojave and Gladiator while they are at it.

 

[World14]

If you are explaining or justifying, you are losing.

This will also probably get deleted (of which a previous comment was, and I'm still more impressed I was given a reason, compared to social media in general never saying why lmao), but this line can be taken both ways.
You're justifying the reason why the "cancel culture" does this by doing exactly what they do, reason-(and meaning)-less responses.
I oughta know how meaningless they are: Growing up around them, always telling their parents that they "respect everyone", as the person they ridiculed for years stood right there, wondering where his respect was.

 

[JeepandRams]

This will also probably get deleted (of which a previous comment was, and I'm still more impressed I was given a reason, compared to social media in general never saying why lmao), but this line can be taken both ways.
You're justifying the reason why the "cancel culture" does this by doing exactly what they do, reason-(and meaning)-less responses.
I oughta know how meaningless they are: Growing up around them, always telling their parents that they "respect everyone", as the person they ridiculed for years stood right there, wondering where his respect was.

I am justifying a smart business decision. Pay me now or pay me much more later. They can stil introduce the new body style with a new name without much damage but let this fester and this name kerfluffle will become the story instead of the new vehicle. Whether we like it or not, everything is now recognized as political. The litmus test is that no other vehicle is named this way. Long and short, why alienate customers when you don’t have to?

 

[Mr. Fusion]

As a 23 year old member of this "younger generation", I did not ask for this lmao

I'm 52 and I have always felt this way (well, as long as I've been aware of product names, anyway). Not because I have a personal ethnic stake in the matter, but because naming things after groups of people just sounds really dumb to my ears. As someone pointed out upthread, Jeep Cherokee is no less ridiculous to me than Jeep Irishman or Jeep Croat. And I could never bring myself to root for the Cleveland Lapps or the Washington Inner Mongolians.

Having said that, I do have affection for the cause of our native peoples, and if modern sensitivity is what brings about the end of (IMO) pointless product names, then I consider it a win.

PS: Those bemoaning the "new" concept of ethnic sensitivity can always just translate it to the old-fashioned value of common courtesy.

 

[Zagnut27]

I'm 52 and I have always felt this way (well, as long as I've been aware of product names, anyway). Not because I have a personal ethnic stake in the matter, but because naming things after groups of people just sounds really dumb to my ears. As someone pointed out upthread, Jeep Cherokee is no less ridiculous to me than Jeep Irishman or Jeep Croat. And I could never bring myself to root for the Cleveland Lapps or the Washington Inner Mongolians.

Having said that, I do have affection for the cause of our native peoples, and if modern sensitivity is what brings about the end of (IMO) pointless product names, then I consider it a win.

PS: Those bemoaning the "new" concept of ethnic sensitivity can always just translate it to the old-fashioned value of common courtesy.

PS: Those bemoaning the "new" concept of ethnic sensitivity can always just translate it to the old-fashioned value of common courtesy.

Amen.

 

[Dave Z]

PS: Those bemoaning the "new" concept of ethnic sensitivity can always just translate it to the old-fashioned value of common courtesy.

I have often wondered why people who bemoan the lack of courtesy today, feel that it does not need to be extended to everyone.

Yes, the Cherokee name was taken presumably because they could traverse broken and treacherous lands, and maybe because Jeep felt they were going to renege on the warranty (ha, ha). But Jeep Arizona might have made more sense.

As for the Dakota, while there is a Dakota people, I would be pretty sure it was named after the states. As for the Gladiator, I don't think there are any Romans around to object. As for the Mojave, it's a place, not a people, as far as I know. Naming things after places is okay. I don't think we will ever see a Jeep Sioux for other reasons.

The Dodge Dakota name is unlikely to return for other reasons, I suspect. The midsize pickup will likely end up as a Ram even if it's a metric-tonner.

 

[MIKE3187]

I'm 52 and I have always felt this way (well, as long as I've been aware of product names, anyway). Not because I have a personal ethnic stake in the matter, but because naming things after groups of people just sounds really dumb to my ears. As someone pointed out upthread, Jeep Cherokee is no less ridiculous to me than Jeep Irishman or Jeep Croat. And I could never bring myself to root for the Cleveland Lapps or the Washington Inner Mongolians.

Having said that, I do have affection for the cause of our native peoples, and if modern sensitivity is what brings about the end of (IMO) pointless product names, then I consider it a win.

PS: Those bemoaning the "new" concept of ethnic sensitivity can always just translate it to the old-fashioned value of common courtesy.

Weren't sports teams names changed only as a result of an outcry for what they stood for? Washington Redskins was using a derogatory name, which is much different than Cherokee which refers to a proper name. Will be interested to see where Stellantis goes with this, if they address it at all.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

I have often wondered why people who bemoan the lack of courtesy today, feel that it does not need to be extended to everyone.

You are implying that using the Cherokee name is not courteous or is actually disparaging in some way?

But the use of these names was all about embracing the spirit of the Native American people in a positive way.

Why would a company use a name for a product in a negative manner? Branding is about positivity.

 

[Erik Latranyi]

As for the Dakota, while there is a Dakota people, I would be pretty sure it was named after the states.

The North and South Dakota were named after the Sioux word for "Friend"

As for the Gladiator, I don't think there are any Romans around to object.

No, but the descendants of African slaves forced to fight in the arena as "gladiators" still exist.
Would you want Jeep to name a vehicle the "Plantation"?

As for the Mojave, it's a place, not a people, as far as I know. Naming things after places is okay. I don't think we will ever see a Jeep Sioux for other reasons.

You are wrong. The Mojave people exist

Mohave people - Wikipedia