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Discussion Starter #121
DODGE HAS NO FUTURE

According to Tim Kuniskis himself. He gave zero hope and zero reason for excitement for Dodge. What a great way to represent your brand. He see's no future in it... so why should we? Nice to know the head guy for your team couldn't care less.

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It's not unusual for FCA people to refuse to comment on future product.
As with Chrysler, even if they just referred to a future version of it as "The stuff we have coming is amazing" or "we are fully committed to growing and strengthening the brand", it would be something. That they continue to equivocate about the future is not an encouraging sign.
 

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It's going to take some time to get the latest merger sorted out, so I don't expect much 'new' in the way of vehicles for some time. The Charger/Challenger/300 have had a phenomenal run, but just like in 1974 that run will come to an end someday. They may not return in current form, the market is changing. Ram and Jeep are solid, and will no doubt represent a big part of Stellantis in North America. As for the rest of it, we will just have to wait and see. Until then, take heart. Plenty of new muscle cars available for the foreseeable future.
 

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DODGE HAS NO FUTURE

According to Tim Kuniskis himself. He gave zero hope and zero reason for excitement for Dodge. What a great way to represent your brand. He see's no future in it... so why should we? Nice to know the head guy for your team couldn't care less.

Article
That's your reading. Not mine. Perhaps you missed this \/

Still, Kuniskis sees a role for Dodge after the merger of FCA and PSA is complete, and he noted the beauty of a "house of brands" is that it affords each to have its own unique and separate identity in the marketplace. In short, no individual brand needs to try to be all things to all customers...

..."At some point, something will have to change, there's no question," Kuniskis confessed. "I'm not going quietly into that new reality. The requirements get more stringent every single year and, at some point, we gotta do something."
That's a pretty bold statement (pun intended) - even if it has absolutely zero specifics - that Dodge has a future as one of Stellantis' 14 Stars.​
 

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That's your reading. Not mine. Perhaps you missed this \/



That's a pretty bold statement (pun intended) - even if it has absolutely zero specifics - that Dodge has a future as one of Stellantis' 14 Stars.​
"I'm not going quietly into that new reality. The requirements get more stringent every single year and, at some point, we gotta do something."

See, for me that's very clever execuspeak answer. It implies an answer where in fact there is none. Most people would read, "...we gotta do something" and assume that means changes to the product to embrace the future of motoring. To me, I read the preface, "I'm not going quietly into that new reality..." and think that entire statement could just as easily mean that there is no future for Dodge brand at all and he is fighting to keep it alive as long as possible. "...at some point, we gotta do something" could also mean that at some point they're going to be forced to terminate the Dodge brand. His entire statement is deliberately vague because if Stellantis doesn't have a future for Dodge he doesn't want to let the cat out of the bag as it would potentially hurt sales of existing product. If there IS product, why wouldn't he just say, "we have some exciting stuff in the pipeline and I'm really looking forward to our future at Dodge." It's that vagueness combined with no positive twist that gives me serious concern.

Point is, a major publication asked the head of Dodge point blank whether the brand has a future and he declined to give a straight answer.

Allpar used to publish the brand product plans from the executive presentations. Hasn't both Dodge and Chrysler been absent entirely from the last few of these?
 

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Discussion Starter #128
^ Exactly my point, but said so much better Powdered Toast Man. It's very sad to see.

It is very likely there is no future and his answers were very depressing.
 

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"I'm not going quietly into that new reality. The requirements get more stringent every single year and, at some point, we gotta do something."

See, for me that's very clever execuspeak answer. It implies an answer where in fact there is none. Most people would read, "...we gotta do something" and assume that means changes to the product to embrace the future of motoring. To me, I read the preface, "I'm not going quietly into that new reality..." and think that entire statement could just as easily mean that there is no future for Dodge brand at all and he is fighting to keep it alive as long as possible. "...at some point, we gotta do something" could also mean that at some point they're going to be forced to terminate the Dodge brand. His entire statement is deliberately vague because if Stellantis doesn't have a future for Dodge he doesn't want to let the cat out of the bag as it would potentially hurt sales of existing product. If there IS product, why wouldn't he just say, "we have some exciting stuff in the pipeline and I'm really looking forward to our future at Dodge." It's that vagueness combined with no positive twist that gives me serious concern.

Point is, a major publication asked the head of Dodge point blank whether the brand has a future and he declined to give a straight answer.

Allpar used to publish the brand product plans from the executive presentations. Hasn't both Dodge and Chrysler been absent entirely from the last few of these?
Sorry, but I think you're reading 10 years of FCA mistreatment into his answer. How I read it is "We're giving Mopar enthusiasts basically what they want, but we can't keep making big V8 gasburners forever. We may go into the new reality kicking and screaming (or thundering), but we have to eventually go there (electrification). I don't know YET how that's going to play out, because we really can't make plans for Dodge that may be OBE in a year with the Tavares ascendancy. Jeep and Ram can and must do things because they're pretty solid moneymakers. But, we're going to be here.

^ Exactly my point, but said so much better Powdered Toast Man. It's very sad to see.

It is very likely there is no future and his answers were very depressing.
Sorry, but I don't share your depression. Frankly, I think there's room for Dodge and Chrysler both in this constellation of stars called Stellantis. Ford and GM keep giving us more room to grow every time they cancel a car, and Jeep shouldn't be getting road biased CUVs & SUVs.
 

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Sorry, but I think you're reading 10 years of FCA mistreatment into his answer. How I read it is "We're giving Mopar enthusiasts basically what they want, but we can't keep making big V8 gasburners forever. We may go into the new reality kicking and screaming (or thundering), but we have to eventually go there (electrification). I don't know YET how that's going to play out, because we really can't make plans for Dodge that may be OBE in a year with the Tavares ascendancy. Jeep and Ram can and must do things because they're pretty solid moneymakers. But, we're going to be here.

Sorry, but I don't share your depression. Frankly, I think there's room for Dodge and Chrysler both in this constellation of stars called Stellantis. Ford and GM keep giving us more room to grow every time they cancel a car, and Jeep shouldn't be getting road biased CUVs & SUVs.
"Still, the brand's head wouldn't share if a next-generation Charger or Challenger, both of which currently ride on a platform that dates back to 2005, are in the works. Nor would Kuniskis elaborate when asked if there are additional future models planned for Dodge."

Thing is, didnt we already know there was a replacement Charger and Challenger in the late stages of development? Weren't they planned to launch in 2022? Last year they were quietly pushed back indefinitely. Now the head of Dodge won't even confirm that such a vehicle is even planned.

He's said all I need to hear. Combine that with the direction the two brands have taken over the last 4 years.

How on earth does Ford canceling cars help Dodge or Chrysler when they've already abandoned those sedan segments years ago? No one was buying Tauruses except police and fleets to begin with. Fusion's competition was 200 and that vanished in 2017. Focus was the competitor for the Dart and that model is long gone too.
 

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Allpar used to publish the brand product plans from the executive presentations. Hasn't both Dodge and Chrysler been absent entirely from the last few of these?
Usual product show for FCA US brands was scheduled for this year. You know, the one where dealers are gathered. It was cancelled due to COVID19.

FCA Italy had it last year and I can tell you they showed them products which weren't part of the new 5 year plan.

FCA executives usually don't speak openly about future plans and products. No if they are not already communicated publicly.
 

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I think this is one of those situations where you’re darned if you do and darned if you don’t. If he says the future holds x, y, or z then people will complain because he didn’t mention a, b, or c. If he doesn’t mention any of the letters, then the alphabet will be killed off.

They’re in the middle of a major merger, during a pandemic. Give it time to sort out. They may not have concrete ideas yet about each brand, other than the ones that are well defined already. Until they have time to sit down and hammer out the details once the merger is complete, they probably won’t know definitively.

I know everyone wants info about where certain brands are going...and for some brands that’s an annual head scratcher...but I don’t think it’s realistic to expect too much in the way of commitments right now.
 

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I think this is one of those situations where you’re darned if you do and darned if you don’t. If he says the future holds x, y, or z then people will complain because he didn’t mention a, b, or c. If he doesn’t mention any of the letters, then the alphabet will be killed off.

They’re in the middle of a major merger, during a pandemic. Give it time to sort out. They may not have concrete ideas yet about each brand, other than the ones that are well defined already. Until they have time to sit down and hammer out the details once the merger is complete, they probably won’t know definitively.

I know everyone wants info about where certain brands are going...and for some brands that’s an annual head scratcher...but I don’t think it’s realistic to expect too much in the way of commitments right now.
Thing is he didn't have to be specific at all. He could have just made a generally positive statement like, "I can't tell you what we're working on, but I'm very excited about what we have in store for the future!" Done. Avoids specifics but gives a hopeful and optimistic message about the future of the brand. Instead he basically whined about electrification and refused to acknowledge the existence of future product.
 

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Pushed back indefinitely? No. Pushed back to MY 2023.

If you look at the Jeep plan, you will see that Dodge isn't the only brand to have delayed models. Renegade and Cherokee were to be all new by 2022. Looks more likely that they will be 2023 or later models now.

Jeep was also to have electrification on all nameplates by 2021 but 2021 is almost here and they only have the Wrangler available with a mild hybrid system in the US, plus Renegade and Compass elsewhere. Can the current Cherokee even support electrification? If so, I doubt they will add it in the final one-to-two model years of the KL's lifecycle and will instead wait for the new model. Gladiator will be easy enough to add the 3.6 with eTorque into, since both the Wrangler and Ram have that engine, plus the 2.0 PHEV powertrain coming to the Wrangler soon.
 

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Thing is he didn't have to be specific at all. He could have just made a generally positive statement like, "I can't tell you what we're working on, but I'm very excited about what we have in store for the future!" Done. Avoids specifics but gives a hopeful and optimistic message about the future of the brand. Instead he basically whined about electrification and refused to acknowledge the existence of future product.
I think people would read too much into it no matter what he said. Maybe he was having a bad day. Maybe he just got out of a meeting with the uppity ups and was annoyed and pissed about the ridiculousness that often goes on in said meetings ( I could feel him on that). Maybe he had to poop and was feeling emotional about it. Who knows.

I think we’re missing an important point in all of this...with all the five year plans that we’ve seen over the years, and all the info of “coming soon” product that never materialized, what difference does what he says now matter in the grand scheme of things? Everything is subject to change, and nothing is set in stone when heading into a major merger. Anything said is just words. Maybe it makes you feel good, maybe it doesn’t...but it’s still just words. Facta non verba.
 

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Thing is he didn't have to be specific at all. He could have just made a generally positive statement like, "I can't tell you what we're working on, but I'm very excited about what we have in store for the future!" Done. Avoids specifics but gives a hopeful and optimistic message about the future of the brand. Instead he basically whined about electrification and refused to acknowledge the existence of future product.
My opinion: NO, you READ him as "whining about electrification!"

Let's face it, we're all the product of our environment, and Chrysler and Dodge's environment has been 1 step forward, 2 steps back for so long, it's practically expected for Allparians to be jaded and cynical at this point.

Anyway, I'm with Zag; it doesn't matter what he says, it's going to be misconstrued either way, for good or bad.
 

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Anyway, I'm with Zag.
Sounds like a political slogan....Zag for President, I’m with Zag! :D

Disclaimer: Zag has far too many skeletons in his closet(s) to ever think about running for public office. Not for use with some sets. Void where prohibited. See in store for details. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #139
Pushed back indefinitely? No. Pushed back to MY 2023.

If you look at the Jeep plan, you will see that Dodge isn't the only brand to have delayed models.
The difference is Ram and Jeep actually have planned models to push back. Chrysler and Dodge have none. They've had no new models since the Pacifica.
 

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I would rather see Dodge die as the last real enthusiast's car than see it become a shell of itself selling over-priced golf carts and RC cars.

Electrification is a farce. It's only "the future" because our overlords have decreed that they know best and that we should all thank them for their wisdom in forcing us to adapt.
 
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