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These are not my numbers, they are numbers of others, I just reported them, and yes, it was $71-75 and $151 after benefits and retirement. Again, not my numbers, union numbers, non-union numbers were $48 per hour cost. This is 2008, the newest numbers I could find, the low numbers were 1980, about the time they started climbing at a decent pace. Needless to say, the rate of labor inflation is still greater than any other inflationary costs I could find in comparison. Again, not my numbers, they are reported numbers from searches of the two years for labor costs to build a car and number of hours to build a car.
 

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1974 Plymouth Valiant - 2013 Dodge Dart - 2013 Chrysler 300C
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I don't know where you got those numbers, but the ones Chrysler reported were $71-75, total, with all benefits, including pensions to retired workers (for which they were criticized).

The numbers started climbing in 1980 partly due to the increase in medical costs but largely because the proportion of current workers over retired workers was falling.

If you could provide sources it would be nice.

Non-union members would be cheaper since there's presumably no defined-benefit pension and no post-retirement medical care.

The numbers will be lower now because post-retirement medical care is handled by the VEBA and is not paid by Chrysler.

Wikipedia though I hate to cite it:

"In a November 23, 2008, New York Times editorial, Andrew Ross Sorkin claimed that the average UAW worker was paid $70 per hour, including health and pension costs, while Toyota workers in the US receive $10 to $20 less.[15] The UAW asserts that most of this labor cost disparity comes from legacy pension and healthcare benefits to retired members, of which the Japanese automakers have none.... According to the 2007 GM Annual Report, typical autoworkers earn a base wage of approximately $28 per hour. Following the 2007 National Agreement, the base starting wage was lowered to about $15 per hour.[17]"

"$73 an Hour: Adding It Up"

So the older workers make $40 per hour including wages, overtime, and vacation pay. Health and other fringe benefits are $15. Toyota pays a total of $45 rather than $55 mostly by having fewer benefits. (Entry level Detroit workers make half what the experienced ones do.)

The remainder was the cost of the retirees who are now handled by the VEBA which is another $15.

Of course if you would prefer to disbelieve the New York Times, which I will say is not always firmly accurate, I'd be happy to hear your justifications. But in this case they sound pretty much on the money.

I also have to say that it's unfair to count overtime pay as part of base wages, since Toyota's wages almost certainly are not calculated that way!
 

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Here is one of the direct quotes from this article which has one sentence in it...
If you annualize Chrysler's labor cost of $75.86 an hour per worker over a 35-hour week, for 50-weeks a year, the yearly compensation comes in at almost $133,000 per worker per year.
This was November, 18, 2008, like I said, the newest information I could confirm.

If someone is putting put false numbers, don't blame me, I used the internet and several sites to verify it was not a one-site set of numbers.
 

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If those were pre-bankruptcy labor costs, today's numbers are - I believe - far lower.

After speaking with a few folks I know that work in the plants, that "35-hour week" comment may be a bit inaccurate.
 

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"Yearly compensation" - which INCLUDES all benefits costs. Not $150 an hour.

Iacocca in his autobiography says that they paid $17 an hour in 1978 when he took over straight wage, not full cost. No way it has quadrupled in 30 years.
 

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The Student News Daily writer clearly had no idea what he was talking about. Yeah, if you take $76 an hour times x hours, you get $150,000. But for the twentieth time or so, the workers do not get the money spent on retiree health care benefits AND the money spent on their own benefits, AND that number includes overtime, AND everything else Chrysler could put into the pot.

The mistake that writer made was taking the total amount and assuming that was someone's hourly straight wages. I don't think any union workers at Chrysler have ever been paid $76 an hour not including someone else's retirement benefits.

For all we know, it also includes the cost of the HR department... their supervisors... the parking lots... air conditioning...

Let's say for a moment that the total cost per hour of workers including retired workers' pensions was $76 an hour. It is no longer that amount (at most $60 for the older workers including all benefits).

Taking that $75 and turning it into $150 per hour is invalid.
 

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Guys, tired of the garbage. I am done, and if you don't believe me, look the garbage up yourself. My major point is, labor, union, and retirement costs add to the cost of each and every vehicle and although they may not be as high as they were at the heyday to failure, it is still, based on FACT, higher than the rest of inflation costs over the past three decades. Instead of arguing with numbers I found, prove my numbers are wrong because I didn't select the highest numbers I could locate, I gave up trying to find other numbers after seeing them repeated more than half a dozen times.
 

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$29,500,000 for the sale of 2,250,165 cars and light trucks sold in 2012, $13.11 per car. Who's fault is it? Who cares? CEOs are kind of like collector cars, some are worth more than others, depends on the collector purchasing one and having enough money to get the best one they can afford. If all CEOs were like a Pinto or Corvair I doubt it would be such a big deal, but CEOs are more like 1970 Hemi 'cuda 4spd convertibles, so we pay for them. Want to blame the board of directors for hiring such an expensive person? We put up with it because we purchase their vehicles/goods, so I guess I admire a person being worth that much pay as long as he does a good job for the company and disown them if they don't accomplish what they are paid for.
 

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It's irrelevant to calculate the cost per product of a CEO. Our CEO only gets $650K in cash and about $1M in stock options and other benefits, for sales of $1.8 billion. It doesn't make him less valuable or effective or talented than anyone else on that list. What is relevant is class structure and size, and opportunity for mobility. Once you destroy or discourage the hopes of middle class workers, you are sowing the seeds for revolution. The gap between haves and have-nots has been widening in the US for 30 years, at an ever-increasing pace, which makes for a less stable society. I think everyone can agree that this is not a desirable outcome.
 

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dana44 said:
Guys, tired of the garbage. I am done, and if you don't believe me, look the garbage up yourself. My major point is, labor, union, and retirement costs add to the cost of each and every vehicle and although they may not be as high as they were at the heyday to failure, it is still, based on FACT, higher than the rest of inflation costs over the past three decades. Instead of arguing with numbers I found, prove my numbers are wrong because I didn't select the highest numbers I could locate, I gave up trying to find other numbers after seeing them repeated more than half a dozen times.
First page of Google hits - that was easy:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/

2011: Volkswagen non-union in the US: $33.77 per hour total; of which $14.50 is pay.

2008: US UAW gets $70-$75/hr total compensation.
"
Once the historic provisions of last year’s four-year labor contract are fully implemented, the Big Three eventually will be paying their unionized workers an average of $40 to $45 per hour in wages and benefits, Mr. Cole told The Washington Times in an interview. That range is as low or lower than the wage-and-benefit package earned by workers at Toyota and Honda plants, he said."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/24/us-auto-industry-closing-great-divide-in-quality-w/?page=all

http://www.uaw.org/page/wages-and-labor-costs
 
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So it’s “garbage” if it’s a verifiable source, but it’s a “fact” if it’s coming from some blogger who misinterpreted what he read in the Times?

Does that mean Toledo’s closing down when the Jeep-China plant opens? ;)
 

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NO, it's garbage that you are attacking me for showing repeatable times (although I do admit I only linked to one), the costs to produce a vehicle, and that I believe it has contributed, but not the only reason, Chrysler and GM went bankrupt (there are many factors, this is just one big one), and that the cost of vehicles has increased much faster than the rest of inflation (lots of factors, labor cost is part of it), and that other people reporting the information that is verifiable is somehow my fault. I find it odd to attack the messenger and business accounting methods to show actual cost over time. It still comes down that the article (back on topic here) does not say what this freeze is all about, just that it is done to 8000 people, right?

CEO pay to laborist costs have been widening more than 30 years, try centuries. Always has, always will, but blame the people responsible for it, not the CEO or the spread itself, because a prospective CEO doesn't step into a business and say pay my X or else, the Board of Directors can say, well, we have your application, don't call us, we'll call you. It's bargaining on the CEOs side, and beating the competition against having them having a more productive CEO (when they are good). Reducing the wage from the top down works for the benefit of all, but increasing the wages from the bottom up only makes it more difficult for those of us on the bottom to afford anything because accounting-wise, if all workers are paid $200K a year, that cost just gets passed on to the consumer and that doesn't do anything for any of us to be able to afford any product. Yes, it would be great to make close to what the CEO makes, but who could afford anything then?
 

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A point you forget is the money the average Joe makes goes right back into the economy and keeps it all moving, theres not reaslly a lot to save if any. These meagamillion dollar pay days do not. $29.5 million for one man does far less for the economy as would 393 well paying jobs!
 

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Garbage is a strong word, but indeed, a source that doesn't seem very credible was cited, among the many other unlisted sources. And so easy to find the real data, I don't know why you had any trouble.

If vehicle prices are going up faster than inflation, then there are three major contributors, none of which is the 8% that is the labor cost. The first is energy, which HAS gone up faster than inflation and is still an unstable factor. The second is raw materials, which go up in price inherently with demand AND because of the energy cost of transporting them (looks like Ford's vertical integration at River Rouge was a great thing). The third is the cost of government regulations. UAW Labor cannot influence any of these.

I'll give one example of inflation vs car price, though. My 1992 Daytona was $13,100 sticker price. Today, using http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/, that same car would cost $21,711.73. I would bet you that a Dodge Dart equipped the way my (base) Daytona was, would sticker out for about $18,000. So there's one example that defies the claim.

Let's take my dad's 1989 Acclaim that he bought new. It stickered for $13,800. Today's dollars, that's $25,878,45. We just bought a Chrysler 200 that had far more equipment, and sticker was $22,515. There's a second example that defies the claim.

Let's take the 1966 Belvedere wagon that my mother bought for $3,875. Today that's $27,810.42. That's probably just about inline with a minivan that has far more options. Again, within inflation.

Let's take my 1985 Daytona that I bought new. It stickered for $10,500. Today's dollars, that's $22,691.22. We just bought a Chrysler 200 that had far more equipment, and sticker was $22,515. Again, a Dodge Dart equipped the way my (base) Daytona was, would sticker out for about $18,000. So there's a 4th example that defies the claim.
 
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