Yup. Because it’s all about “da margins.”Since there is zero leadership at the top here in NA on dealer and quality issues, absolutely nothing will change. They need to go back to square one. Unfortunately no one seems to think there's a problem.
There is NO chance for a Plymouth revival, you might as well ask for DeSoto to return also. Chrysler always had too many Brands and now so does Stellantis, there is no way they would revive Plymouth as a brand. The only hope would be to make it a sub-brand of Chrysler, ie: Chrysler-Plymouth, Cuda, Voyager, Valiant, as entry level versions to a much more up-market Chrysler versions?Plymouth died of neglect that started around the 1975-1981 timeframe. That said, sales were high through 1990, and then they fell off a cliff.
1. Plymouth got Cricket later than Colt (but it did get Arrow). Plymouth stopped getting its own wheelbase in the late '70s, it became a badge engineered Dodge. Plymouth didn't get the fancy 2.2 or Shelby packages on Horizon/TC3, Sundance, Caravelle, no turbo Neon, Acclaim, Breeze was late and no V6, AWD Laser was late. Prowler was just too little too late.
2. Plymouth got no equivalent of the '75 Chager, Mirada, 400, Lancer, Dynasty, Monaco, Intrepid, Daytona, Avenger/Stratus Coupe, Stealth and Viper. Remember Plymouth was the brand of Sport Satellite/Road Runner/Superbird/Sebring/GTX, Sport Fury, and Valiant/Barracuda/Duster/Scamp.
3. Eagle sucked up a lot of money and some models that would otherwise have gone to Plymouth. Premier and Vision should have been Plymouth Fury. Talon intentionally sucked all of the wind out of Laser. Even Summit/Vista stole Colt/Vista sales. This coincides with Plymouth sales falling off a cliff. I guess the thought was that Chrysler/Plymouth dealers could deal without Plymouth sales better than Jeep/Eagle dealers could deal without car sales. They moved base models of LeBaron/Cirrus/Sebring sedan,T&C and Concorde downmarket to pick up Plymouth sales.
After that there really wasn't anything left for Daimler to do except pull the plug. Chrysler management, especially management in the '90s killed off Plymouth.
If they are going to do a Plymouth revival, there is no better time than now. Here are some ways to do it:
Platform: Chrysler STLA Large, Dodge STLA Large-Medium, Plymouth STLA Small Plymouth becomes the brand of value and small cars.
Powertrain: Chrysler BEV, Dodge BEV-PHEV, Plymouth HEV-ICE. Plymouth becomes the no plug in value brand.
When I owned my '98 Contour SE, ( a car I wish I'd never sold, btw )The Ford dealership in downtown Edmonton, Ab. 'Healy Ford' was excellent. Service was spot on, fast, and often free, I did a recall and a general tune on the car after I purchased it, and the customer service was really good!I live in a small town where most people know each other. The most loyal FCA customers that I always saw Chryslers in their driveways now have either a Kia, a Hyundai ou a GM product. Why? Lack of product and dealer support. The two best Chrysler dealers in a 100km radius got closed down in the last 15 years, leaving two shady dealers who does shady deals and odd sales tactics and very poor after sale service. Once they’re (customers) gone and have been burnt, it is very hard and almost impossible to get them back.
I have been working for Ford since 2010 now in the service department. Yes the quality has gone down since the late 2000 but Ford does everything to keep it’s customers and image. Customers are loyal, corporate and dealers are responsible for that. Something you wont find at your local Ram dealer…
They're reviving Lancia. Of course, they're a European company, so they're going to prefer European brands anyway. But reviving Lancia makes me even less confident that Chrysler will stick around. Stellantis does have too many brands by any objective measure, and their equity is split into way too many small chunks.There is NO chance for a Plymouth revival, you might as well ask for DeSoto to return also. Chrysler always had too many Brands and now so does Stellantis, there is no way they would revive Plymouth as a brand. The only hope would be to make it a sub-brand of Chrysler, ie: Chrysler-Plymouth, Cuda, Voyager, Valiant, as entry level versions to a much more up-market Chrysler versions?
They’re not reviving Lancia. It never left unlike Plymouth. Lancia is much more like Chrysler in that it’s finally getting investment.They're reviving Lancia. Of course, they're a European company, so they're going to prefer European brands anyway. But reviving Lancia makes me even less confident that Chrysler will stick around. Stellantis does have too many brands by any objective measure, and their equity is split into way too many small chunks.
There is NO chance for a Plymouth revival, you might as well ask for DeSoto to return also. Chrysler always had too many Brands and now so does Stellantis, there is no way they would revive Plymouth as a brand. The only hope would be to make it a sub-brand of Chrysler, ie: Chrysler-Plymouth, Cuda, Voyager, Valiant, as entry level versions to a much more up-market Chrysler versions?
They're reviving Lancia. Of course, they're a European company, so they're going to prefer European brands anyway. But reviving Lancia makes me even less confident that Chrysler will stick around. Stellantis does have too many brands by any objective measure, and their equity is split into way too many small chunks.
Whether Plymouth gets revived or not is irrelevant in the end. They can more easily do a marketing push for Dodge to reintroduce the bottom half of the lineup, that's a marketing decision. What is important is that the US gets middle class models, and that doesn't mean base trims of large BEV Chryslers. That means STLA Medium and Small models for the US with PHEV, HEV and ICE trims. Expand Dodge or make a sub-brand for Chrysler, either way it can't be all BEV.They’re not reviving Lancia. It never left unlike Plymouth. Lancia is much more like Chrysler in that it’s finally getting investment.
I always thought it would be cool if they scrapped Chrysler/Dodge as brands, put them under one 'name' (like Mopar/Pentastar) but kept unique models with unique styling.. Think Hummer EV 'by GMC'.. on paper it might read GMC Hummer EV, but it's seen by consumers as just The Hummer because of the marketing/styling. And Chrysler Corp has a giant catalog of great choices to 'bring back to market'There is NO chance for a Plymouth revival, you might as well ask for DeSoto to return also. Chrysler always had too many Brands and now so does Stellantis, there is no way they would revive Plymouth as a brand. The only hope would be to make it a sub-brand of Chrysler, ie: Chrysler-Plymouth, Cuda, Voyager, Valiant, as entry level versions to a much more up-market Chrysler versions?
Remember, you're an American. You see it from the perspective of your beloved American nameplates. Stella's executives are from PSA and FCA. It will make a lot of people unhappy but I think the future we're careening towards is Chrysler being a rebadged Peugeot and Dodge being a rebadged Alfa Romeo (that part might not be so bad).Whether Plymouth gets revived or not is irrelevant in the end. They can more easily do a marketing push for Dodge to reintroduce the bottom half of the lineup, that's a marketing decision. What is important is that the US gets middle class models, and that doesn't mean base trims of large BEV Chryslers. That means STLA Medium and Small models for the US with PHEV, HEV and ICE trims. Expand Dodge or make a sub-brand for Chrysler, either way it can't be all BEV.
Lancia's not coming to the US, and Fiat should leave. Don't worry about that.
Sometimes I feel like you just pull these things out of a hat. Why would Chrysler be headed towards being a rebadged Peugeot when all of its upcoming product is on STLA Large? Peugeot isn't even using that platform. The funny part is people on this forum were complaining that Tavares decided against bringing rebadged Peugeot products here under the Chrysler brand in the immediate term because he felt it wasn't worth it.Remember, you're an American. You see it from the perspective of your beloved American nameplates. Stella's executives are from PSA and FCA. It will make a lot of people unhappy but I think the future we're careening towards is Chrysler being a rebadged Peugeot and Dodge being a rebadged Alfa Romeo (that part might not be so bad).
Stellantis does have too many brands by any objective measure, and their equity is split into way too many small chunks.
You're mistaking "concept cars" for "upcoming product." You're also taking The only tangible new product we have for Chrysler/Dodge is the Hornet. A rebadged Tonale. As the original title for this thread stated, Chrysler killed their AIrflow and are now going in a "different direction." And they've got a time limit here. They may have no choice but to rebadge what they can get. And no that will not be enough to save Chrysler.Sometimes I feel like you just pull these things out of a hat. Why would Chrysler be headed towards being a rebadged Peugeot when all of its upcoming product is on STLA Large? Peugeot isn't even using that platform. The funny part is people on this forum were complaining that Tavares decided against bringing rebadged Peugeot products here under the Chrysler brand in the immediate term because he felt it wasn't worth it.
Dodge is also using STLA Large for imminent product with Alfa's product on the platform coming after.
If product further down the line for either American brand comes out on STLA Small (unlikely) or STLA Medium (more likely but not anytime soon) then sure they may be leveraging as much as possible from other brands within the Stellantis empire, as they should.
We’ve been promised Dodge products based on Alfa since at least 2016. New Charger/Challenger based on Giulia. A Dodge version of Stelvio. A Dodge version of Tonale. Only one of them happened.You're mistaking "concept cars" for "upcoming product." You're also taking The only tangible new product we have for Chrysler/Dodge is the Hornet. A rebadged Tonale. As the original title for this thread stated, Chrysler killed their AIrflow and are now going in a "different direction." And they've got a time limit here. They may have no choice but to rebadge what they can get. And no that will not be enough to save Chrysler.
That might make more sense if they're as margin happy as they seen to be, yeah.I've always seen DS as more fitting of Chrysler badges. Peugeot says Dodge to me, that's why my Intrepid was a Peugeot 408, the Crossfire was a DS4 and the Aspen was a DS7.
They could also rebadge some Jeeps into Chryslers if they want filler product.
I'm not mistaking the concept cars for anything. Both Windsor and BRampton are gearing up for STLA Large, Christine Feuell (the Chrysler CEO) stated that upcoming product was all STLA Large and she signaled the Airflow wasn't coming as-is as early as 2022 (see the articles from last year I posted earlier). Why would Tavares and the brand CEOs be talking about STLA Large for American brands if they were just going to do an about face and rebadge a bunch of French vehicles?You're mistaking "concept cars" for "upcoming product." You're also taking The only tangible new product we have for Chrysler/Dodge is the Hornet. A rebadged Tonale. As the original title for this thread stated, Chrysler killed their AIrflow and are now going in a "different direction." And they've got a time limit here. They may have no choice but to rebadge what they can get. And no that will not be enough to save Chrysler.
It's not about the time, really, it's just that they never really had a clear image or association, like Hummer.Plymouth has been dead for over 20 years. No one under 30 even knows what a Plymouth is.
Plymouth arguably had at least as good a performance image as Dodge did, if not better, during the muscle car years.It's not about the time, really, it's just that they never really had a clear image or association, like Hummer.
