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If only Chrysler or Dodge can survive, which one should it be?

  • Keep Chrysler, Ditch Dodge

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Save Dodge, Cull Chrysler

    Votes: 40 37.7%
  • "Keep both and I'll bet my house that the profits will come rolling in"

    Votes: 64 60.4%
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What's it cost to develop a platform? A billion dollars? You'd think they'd be eager to get some more mileage out of that with more vehicles on the shared architecture.
I would think the cost to develop just the dimensions is not that high. I think it's all gotten very confused with everyone having different definitions...

Ideally they would all have unique dimensions to match whatever needs they have, and share parts and systems. From what I gather, that's where the future is.
 

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Good point Still, ⅔ of Caravan sales were fleets, so even if we looked at ⅓, and assumed zero fleet sales at all, we are not doing well. (I guess that's not fair since ⅓ of T&C sales went to fleets, too. No idea of Pacifica percentage.)
If only 1/3 of Caravan is retail and overall is 10% down, that is about break even in the comparison. Fleets will stay down for quite a while. Get the merger over with and then we can see something happening. All has to be pretty much on hold to not upset merger ratios.
 

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BTW, why would you drop both?
Aldo says it far better than I can, but I see no future for Charger, Challenger, and 300 after 2023. I see little interest in an electric or even twin-turbo inline six Charger and Challenger. Ram and Jeep meet the needs for pickups, crossovers, and SUV's, which is where the market is now. Had Dart and 200 succeeded, I would feel differently. The only gap I see in the lineup is for a 3 row crossover to replace the Journey, but a Jeep badged stretch version of Cherokee or Compass would sell better and at higher prices than a Dodge or Chrysler badged version. I admire many Dodge and Chrysler products going back to the early 1950's and wish people wanted a modern day version of the sensible Dodge Dart of the 60's and 70's, the K cars, etc, but things are what they are.
 

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My 'keep both' vote is based, not on a business case, but simply what I'd like to see happen. It'll be sad if either goes away. For me, The Chrysler Corporation's coffin would finally be nailed shut. It would be difficult for me to remain loyal to something that's not there anymore. Trucks? I don't think so. Jeeps? No. I've been a MOPAR guy since I was 16, and it was Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Imperial. That was in 1962 and I've bought a buttload of Chrysler product over those years. I'm 74 and currently drive a '16 300. Great car, and if Chrysler/Dodge go away,, I guess I'll drive the 300 til the wheels fall off, if mine don't fall off first.
 

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What's it cost to develop a platform? A billion dollars? You'd think they'd be eager to get some more mileage out of that with more vehicles on the shared architecture.
I'm a senior citizen. I want a crossover do I think jeep, no they are offroad. Do I think dodge, no they are a cloud of smoke. So where do I go chrysler no they only have minivan and a sedan
 

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There will be a market for muscle even after the electrics take over. But how big? I did vote to keep both, but the rational mind says the tortoise would win the race. In nature, the specialized animal is the first to go when the food or the environment dries up.
Biggest problem for fca/ stalantis is too many brands.
 

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Not enough vehicles on a platform. Voyager needs a new nose away from the Pacifica. Chrysler 300 is the last of the RH drive cars and needs spin off vehicles. Newport or New Yorker luxury tech limo like. Then magnum nose ( or new nose) on a 300 for a dodge sedan with a larger trunk. Still wish 2mode hybrid made it to the 300 platform.
I still think the Pacifica platform should spin off into FWD Hybrid / EV sedan and or CUV. Promaster city needs the Doblo workup flat bed treatment. Optional lift / tilt bed. Also love to see a fleet side extended wheel base Promaster city pickup STD cab long bed 2.4L auto or 1.8 hybrid option or 2.0L manual transmission or EV for fleet use. For companies who need runabout pickups with travel under 30miles. Challenger has a shorter wheelbase, why not make a 4dr sedan (valiant) 2.4L hybrid (where the electric motor or motors do all the acceleration and 2.4L or 2.0L keeps batteries charged and helps with maintaining speed), 3.2L mild hybrid or 2 mode hybrid. (fuel engine dies under 20mph and comes back on above 20mph). The company just needs more variety. Plus bring back a little retro look of the 300 and call it FURY for the 5.7L (and above) and Savoy for 3.6L, 3.6L AWD, 2.4L hybrid. Some styling cues from the 1955 Fury (with mini cooper like head lights) with it's small fins and tail lights within the fin. (2020 Chrysler 300 already has a ridge line going to the tail light that could be extended back into a fin. Plus since it's off the 300, offer it in RH drive. Main problem is management.
 

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Don't care what you call the company make me a well made reliable car with a reasonable pricetag and I'll buy. If they can't include a good warranty keep the techno doo-dads off the car.
 

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Don't care what you call the company make me a well made reliable car with a reasonable pricetag and I'll buy. If they can't include a good warranty keep the techno doo-dads off the car.
Most of the "techno doo-dads" are now required by law. You need to complain to government authorities instead of car manufacturers.
 

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Most of the "techno doo-dads" are now required by law. You need to complain to government authorities instead of car manufacturers.
Stating what will make me buy a car is considered a complaint?

Don't see anything about piss poor quality tablet screens that control the entire car being mandatory by law, as one example.

To stay on topic, I simply said I don't care what the corporate logo is, give me a good car with a good warranty. Not sure why you see it as a complaint.
 

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Stating what will make me buy a car is considered a complaint?

Don't see anything about piss poor quality tablet screens that control the entire car being mandatory by law, as one example.

To stay on topic, I simply said I don't care what the corporate logo is, give me a good car with a good warranty. Not sure why you see it as a complaint.
You were complaining about techo doodads.
Backup cameras are now required by law and a screen is necessary to view the image.

Again, whether it is a complaint or your criteria to buy a car, you've got to address the technology issue at the government level. Backup cameras, tire pressure monitoring, stability control, anti-lock brakes are all required. And it's just a matter of time until emergency braking is as well.
 

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You were complaining about techo doodads.
Backup cameras are now required by law and a screen is necessary to view the image.

Again, whether it is a complaint or your criteria to buy a car, you've got to address the technology issue at the government level. Backup cameras, tire pressure monitoring, stability control, anti-lock brakes are all required. And it's just a matter of time until emergency braking is as well.
I think we have different ideas of what complaining is.

When it comes to Chrysler cars, considering my last few Chrysler's have been less complicated cars and still suffered ridiculous reliability problems, I'm not touching a new technologically sophisticated Chrysler unless they include a very stout warranty at no extra cost to me. I don't care who is forcing the technology on the car. Chrysler is sourcing the bad quality parts, not law makers.
 

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You were complaining about techo doodads.
Backup cameras are now required by law and a screen is necessary to view the image.

Again, whether it is a complaint or your criteria to buy a car, you've got to address the technology issue at the government level. Backup cameras, tire pressure monitoring, stability control, anti-lock brakes are all required. And it's just a matter of time until emergency braking is as well.
All worthy safety enhancements. There were people who complained about seatbelts and airbags when they became standard equipment as well. People can argue about personal responsibility all day but the pedestrian or person in the other car you plow into because you weren't paying attention didn't have any part of your choices.

As for quality, I've had no problems with the "doo dads". I HAVE had serious quality problems with the mechanical components on my Dodge.
 

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I think we have different ideas of what complaining is.
I think what Valiant was pointing out is in previous threads you have complained that vehicles currently available for sale have too much technology for your "needs" and you would prefer simpler vehicles. That can be interpreted as either "complaining" or your "criteria".

The simple fact is even the most basic new vehicle today available has technical "doo-dads" that seemed to exceed your expectations. Perhaps a Yugo would fit your needs if it were still manufactured?

When it comes to Chrysler cars, considering my last few Chrysler's have been less complicated cars and still suffered ridiculous reliability problems, I'm not touching a new technologically sophisticated Chrysler unless they include a very stout warranty at no extra cost to me. I don't care who is forcing the technology on the car. Chrysler is sourcing the bad quality parts, not law makers.
Good luck finding a long term stout warranty for no extra cost from any manufacturer. I seem to recall the longest bumper-to-bumper warranty is 6 years/72,000 miles (VW). Sure, Hyundai/Kia has a ten year warranty, but is limited to the powertrain only. Otherwise it is only a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty. Most of the rest are 4 years/50,000 miles.

20 car brands with the longest warranties (at https://www.businessinsider.com/cars-brands-longest-best-warranty-2019-4#volkswagen-6-years-72000-miles-20 )
 

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Stating what will make me buy a car is considered a complaint?

Don't see anything about piss poor quality tablet screens that control the entire car being mandatory by law, as one example.

To stay on topic, I simply said I don't care what the corporate logo is, give me a good car with a good warranty. Not sure why you see it as a complaint.
Whatever, have you ever given us responses that make us think? Or are you the mosquito at the barbecue?
 

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Whatever, have you ever given us responses that make us think? Or are you the mosquito at the barbecue?
Majority of the posts here consist of "better take it to dealership" or "oh wow a new shade of blue next year i can't wait". I don't see how that's any better.

Sometimes unpleasant discussions need to happen, it just appears to be frowned upon here.

Sorry you don't like reading some unfortunate truths or different opinions.
 

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I think what Valiant was pointing out is in previous threads you have complained that vehicles currently available for sale have too much technology for your "needs" and you would prefer simpler vehicles. That can be interpreted as either "complaining" or your "criteria".

The simple fact is even the most basic new vehicle today available has technical "doo-dads" that seemed to exceed your expectations. Perhaps a Yugo would fit your needs if it were still manufactured?



Good luck finding a long term stout warranty for no extra cost from any manufacturer. I seem to recall the longest bumper-to-bumper warranty is 6 years/72,000 miles (VW). Sure, Hyundai/Kia has a ten year warranty, but is limited to the powertrain only. Otherwise it is only a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty. Most of the rest are 4 years/50,000 miles.

20 car brands with the longest warranties (at https://www.businessinsider.com/cars-brands-longest-best-warranty-2019-4#volkswagen-6-years-72000-miles-20 )
My gripe with the technology is that lack of quality.

I realize all the manufacturers are usimg the same cost and quality cutting techniques, a lot of them are even sourcing from the same poor quality 3rd world sources. The high amount of tech, low quality build and lack of long term support is why I've done a complete 180 in my cehicle tastes and am driving an econo box as a daily. Nobody makes anything I see worth the money. I'm not shelling out $50-$60,000 every 8 years for junk.

For pleasure cars/trucks I'll rebuild my old 440.
 

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I would think the cost to develop just the dimensions is not that high. I think it's all gotten very confused with everyone having different definitions...

Ideally they would all have unique dimensions to match whatever needs they have, and share parts and systems. From what I gather, that's where the future is.
Maybe someone else has adequately explained this in another thread (if so, please provide the link), but what exactly IS the problem with CUSW? Is it too expensive somehow? Is the problem something not related to dimensions? Are the systems too different from other architectures? Why has this been such an impediment?

If platforms/architectures are basically dimensions with common systems, then I really, really don't understand why they couldn't have continued to produce the 200 next to the Cherokee. It wouldn't have had to have generated huge sales. Selling only 25-50,000 of the worldwide per year. Made them all NICE (upscale), with limited discounting/fleet and quiet, word-of-mouth marketing. Aim for high margin/unit and low-ish volumes to both FCA and the dealers. If you are selling only 50K/year, the rear headroom/ingress problem shouldn't be THAT much of an issue. You could have exported and rebadged them as whatever brand in other markets if that would have helped. Other brands within FCA have also been starved for product.

It could have increased the production volume of the plant, or at least allowed them to cut the sales/incentives somewhat on the Cherokee, which would have also helped the Jeep brand in various ways. And they already had the car designed, and had already been making it! No need to make 300K of them per year. Just a low-production, high margin, already designed product. $35K each retail, at whatever volume that would have generated.

Even if the 200 wouldn't have worked for some reason, the Chinese Jeep, rebadged as a nice Chrysler at low volumes, would help in the same way (was it really designed to be incompatible with worldwide compliance/standards? Shouldn't it "port" over to the US production facilities relatively easily?). What is the problem here...I'm struggling to see why these would have been so expensive or difficult to implement. And even a few of these products, being produced next to the Pacifica or Cherokee would help the Chrysler brand tremendously. It would be nice to have a "new" CUV based on the Pacifica or the Portal or whatever, but I'd settle for things already in the quiver. You don't need high volume to keep a brand alive. But you do need product...
 

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I'm a senior citizen. I want a crossover do I think jeep, no they are offroad. Do I think dodge, no they are a cloud of smoke. So where do I go chrysler no they only have minivan and a sedan
I have said for a long time Jeep should come out with a line of “Street Jeeps”. Course the Jeepers would complain about not being a real Jeeps or Trail Rated. But the Compass and Renegades are pretty lame as Jeeps already. Just flat-out copy the Subaru concept of light duty fuel efficient all wheel drive crossover wagons and small suvs. Maybe put these under the Chrysler or Badge to keep the Jeepers happy.
 
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