I think it should be clarified that Avenger incentives are killing the Dart....
Chrysler to extend production of Avenger, Wrangler, Caravan
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It's incentives and financing options are certainly not helping the Dart.
Does anyone think this will change if the Avenger is extended?Stratuscaster said:It's incentives and financing options are certainly not helping the Dart.
Like you, I hardly see how it helps the Dart. And frankly, it would put pressure on the 200 as well. You'll have a vehicle that is roughly the same size but thousands less, in the same showroom.Erik Latranyi said:Does anyone think this will change if the Avenger is extended?
But...on the flip side of that, it *might* allow you to start pushing the 200 and the Chrysler brand upmarket--something many of us want. And it might keep SHAP fully employed.
Is it possible that they are trying to improve the product images of the 200 and the Dart, even if it means very low sales levels? Perhaps, in the long run, they don't want price-conscious buyers--they want image or vehicle-specific characteristics to drive sales. In that case, if you take a 10 year approach, not a 3 month approach, you might sacrifice sales of your "premium" lines in order to improve their image. Yes, they are selling low, but nobody thinks they are blue-light specials. Keeping the Avenger around would allow you to make a lot of sales without diluting the Dart or 200 brands. And if you can find a way to raise the 200's average sales price by $5000, then it still might be insanely profitable in smaller numbers, IF the Avenger is absorbing a lot of the plants running costs.
Of course, I'm not sure I believe any of this, until someone we trust begins to confirm it....
I hope this is true, I wouldn't like to see the Avenger dropped.
Well the incentives and finnancing options for the Avenger are also better here in Mexico, but I read on the news that new disccounts and incentives are coming for the Dart, right now they're giving the insurance free for 2 years, but the Avenger or even the 200 have much better disccounts (except the Avenger R/T or the 200 Convertible, here they only sell the hardtop BTW.).
If the Avenger goes away, it will leave a big hole on the sales, the question would be if the Dart could handle that itself or will Crhysler make lower priced 200?.
Well the incentives and finnancing options for the Avenger are also better here in Mexico, but I read on the news that new disccounts and incentives are coming for the Dart, right now they're giving the insurance free for 2 years, but the Avenger or even the 200 have much better disccounts (except the Avenger R/T or the 200 Convertible, here they only sell the hardtop BTW.).
If the Avenger goes away, it will leave a big hole on the sales, the question would be if the Dart could handle that itself or will Crhysler make lower priced 200?.
Extending the Avenger - AND it's incentives and financing options - won't help Dart. Unless...they take advantage of the amortized lower costs of the Avenger, reduce it to a single model with few options, and move it DOWN in the lineup as the entry level offering.
Yes, some would find it odd that the lower-priced offering from Dodge may be a bit bigger and may have a bit more power than the next-level up Dart. But it would also have fewer features and less techno-goodies.
In a nutshell...Avenger SE replaces Dart SE, and Dart starts at SXT level. Unconventional? Sure. So what?
Otherwise, I expect Dart to pick up where Avenger leaves off...when it leaves.
Yes, some would find it odd that the lower-priced offering from Dodge may be a bit bigger and may have a bit more power than the next-level up Dart. But it would also have fewer features and less techno-goodies.
In a nutshell...Avenger SE replaces Dart SE, and Dart starts at SXT level. Unconventional? Sure. So what?
Otherwise, I expect Dart to pick up where Avenger leaves off...when it leaves.
The only way it makes sense to keep Avenger is as follows:
The 200 is going to be positioned just like the 300, as a higher-priced, lower volume model.
That is interesting, if true.
Information and statements are all over the place.
The 200 is going to be positioned just like the 300, as a higher-priced, lower volume model.
That is interesting, if true.
Information and statements are all over the place.
Who's steering the boat here? Does Chrysler know what they are doing? Seriously, what is going on? Why is Chrysler not explaining anything? Say something, do something. It seems like Chrysler is all over the place, Three Stooges like. Cart-before-the-horse, tail-wagging-the-dog? The future seems to be completely blind. I'm am quite frankly annoyed with Chrysler, from a lifetime loyal fan. This is my team and it seems to be in chaos at the moment. Oh well, ride the lightning, that's all you can do, is hope they know what they are doing.
I stated many months ago that the rumor at SHAP was that they would frame the new 200 in the new body shop and continue to frame the Avenger in the old body shop for an undetermined amount of time. I don't have any new information.Paul J. Reed said:The article seems to only tell half a story.... (meaning the platform-mates). Are they going to continue making the current Avenger but a new 200? Seems illogical...
Hopefully they don't change a thing, Avenger is selling too well to play games, of course the same can be said for T&C... Maybe they read Allpar after all...Stratuscaster said:Extending the Avenger - AND it's incentives and financing options - won't help Dart. Unless...they take advantage of the amortized lower costs of the Avenger, reduce it to a single model with few options, and move it DOWN in the lineup as the entry level offering.Yes, some would find it odd that the lower-priced offering from Dodge may be a bit bigger and may have a bit more power than the next-level up Dart. But it would also have fewer features and less techno-goodies.In a nutshell...Avenger SE replaces Dart SE, and Dart starts at SXT level. Unconventional? Sure. So what?Otherwise, I expect Dart to pick up where Avenger leaves off...when it leaves.
Fact is, if the rumor is true, then absurd is what we have. And yes, they blew their European pre-recession cash on building Fiat based platforms that haven't yet shown they sell in the US, while ignoring the proven profit centers, such as T&C and Wrangler..Dave said:Anyway, it's a bit absurd to assume that Wrangler is being held up so they can make Fiat-based cars..
What did the 500, Dart line and KL line cost to build???
Absurd indeed.
That's why this section is called news and "rumors". Most of what you're hearing is pure conjecture, not fact, fun to what if? but I think they really do have a plan. Sergio is a poker player, and a good player never reveals all his cards. As well as Italian unions, he is also negotiating with American ones. It wouldn't work to his advantage to have Chrysler stock valued too high, maybe that's the reason for the product slowdown? eh?dakrt99 said:Who's steering the boat here? Does Chrysler know what they are doing? Seriously, what is going on? Why is Chrysler not explaining anything? Say something, do something. It seems like Chrysler is all over the place, Three Stooges like. Cart-before-the-horse, tail-wagging-the-dog? The future seems to be completely blind. I'm am quite frankly annoyed with Chrysler, from a lifetime loyal fan. This is my team and it seems to be in chaos at the moment. Oh well, ride the lightning, that's all you can do, is hope they know what they are doing.
It's really too bad that it won't be till 2018 that the Wrangler is being refreshed.
The rumors are directly contradicting each other. (Avenger dead ---- Avenger Replaced ---- Avenger extended) (Caravan Dropped --- T&C Dropped)
Either there is an intentional disinformation campaign or different people at Auburn Hills think the company is heading in different directions.
Since, there is no clear brand plan (never has been), nobody knows what is coming next, nor what to expect from the future of the corporation.
That is bad for investors, potential investors and those who may skip buying from the corporation due to the directionless leadership.
Either there is an intentional disinformation campaign or different people at Auburn Hills think the company is heading in different directions.
Since, there is no clear brand plan (never has been), nobody knows what is coming next, nor what to expect from the future of the corporation.
That is bad for investors, potential investors and those who may skip buying from the corporation due to the directionless leadership.
+1Erik Latranyi said:The rumors are directly contradicting each other. (Avenger dead ---- Avenger Replaced ---- Avenger extended) (Caravan Dropped --- T&C Dropped)
Either there is an intentional disinformation campaign or different people at Auburn Hills think the company is heading in different directions.
Since, there is no clear brand plan (never has been), nobody knows what is coming next, nor what to expect from the future of the corporation.
That is bad for investors, potential investors and those who may skip buying from the corporation due to the directionless leadership.
How many people outside those on Allpar really know enough to think the company is directionless? I mean, all they hear is continued strong sales, JD Power APPEAL winner, best in class MPG on Ram...... Those aren't directionless ideas to the "uninformed". I like the rumors, but I don't feel helpless or confused by them..... The plan is set, just not being shared.Erik Latranyi said:The rumors are directly contradicting each other. (Avenger dead ---- Avenger Replaced ---- Avenger extended) (Caravan Dropped --- T&C Dropped)
Either there is an intentional disinformation campaign or different people at Auburn Hills think the company is heading in different directions.
Since, there is no clear brand plan (never has been), nobody knows what is coming next, nor what to expect from the future of the corporation.
That is bad for investors, potential investors and those who may skip buying from the corporation due to the directionless leadership.
The plan will be revealed when it needs to be. IMO,SM awaits the Delawares court decision on the value of the stock before proceeding. Cash is king in the world of finance.
Period.
The Allpar followers need to have patience, as it will be rewarded.
Period.
The Allpar followers need to have patience, as it will be rewarded.
Based on where Chrysler was heading in 2009, I'm pleased to be even debating the rumors. Chrysler's performance over the last 4 years, especially given the point from where they started, certainly should serve to at least cut them some slack and wait and see. If they were truly as incompetent as some of the posts make them sound, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Let's go with some "what ifs"Erik Latranyi said:The rumors are directly contradicting each other. (Avenger dead ---- Avenger Replaced ---- Avenger extended) (Caravan Dropped --- T&C Dropped)
Either there is an intentional disinformation campaign or different people at Auburn Hills think the company is heading in different directions.
Since, there is no clear brand plan (never has been), nobody knows what is coming next, nor what to expect from the future of the corporation.
That is bad for investors, potential investors and those who may skip buying from the corporation due to the directionless leadership.
First. Shifts and changes in the company aren't that uncommon. Avenger = dead could have been a product of that. Perhaps they had different plans for the project when it started, and found that the 200 they were coming up with, especially with the Chrysler brand would not make sense as a regular midsized competitor and found they wanted to price it at premium midsized. Somewhere between a Buick Verano and Regal maybe?
Well, let's Roll with that. Chrysler wants to make 200 premium, similar to direction of the rest of the brand, but would leave a large gap. Insert rumors of replacement for Avenger in the form of d-RWD sedan, however this sedan isn't going to be ready for easily a year after the 200 arrives, still leaving a gaping hole in the midsized sedan entry. Meanwhile, the Avenger continues to sell well. Logical answer would be to
Chrysler 200 becomes a premium midsized sedan
Avenger remains the cost cometitive entry level midsized sedan
Avenger is replaced by cost comparable vehicle to competition that gets positive critical response
Not a wish list, just a thoery that fits the above rumors and actually makes oodles of sense IMO. If it's true, then I'd say someone woke up and put together something more logical. I might add, this makes even more sense given how bumpy the role outs have been as of late. That may have served as additional motivation.
I might add, that contradicting rumors have also been a product of varried sources. it's hard to parse out the garbage from the fact, we get a lot of conjecture from other sites. In which they do an interview, make an interpretation of that interview, and that gets imortalized on forums, and cycles back through.
Granted, the sources on the Avenger's death were pretty solid. If these other rumors are true, I believe as I said above. As happens frequently, the simplest answer applies: Plans change.
They may also be slowing down the development cycles to avoid the problems that plagued the Dart and the Cherokee. Perhaps they see they need to allow for the development and in-field use of the new powertrains before committing to further use in new models. They're having trouble keeping up with demand for the 3.6L and the 8 speeds, and now they are adding the 2.4L, the 9 speeds, the new AWD powertrains, 3.2L, etc. Not only are the designs new, the assembly lines are still coming up to speed.
Add to that the possible realization of how much Chrysler has accomplished with their limited human resources, and the possibility that burnout is starting to take its toll.
Add to that the possible realization of how much Chrysler has accomplished with their limited human resources, and the possibility that burnout is starting to take its toll.
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