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They could have bought the Brooklyn Bridge from me instead and had plenty of money to swap the Dart badges for 200 badges. They were both built off of CUSW, so most of the development cost was shared between them. And that's probably the way forward too...but Chrysler needs product NOW, just like Dodge, only Chrysler is even worse off now that Dodge has the Hornet coming.
That's not how it works. Cherokee was also CUSW. Mind, it would have made more sense to do it the way you're saying...
 

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They could have bought the Brooklyn Bridge from me instead and had plenty of money to swap the Dart badges for 200 badges. They were both built off of CUSW, so most of the development cost was shared between them. And that's probably the way forward too...but Chrysler needs product NOW, just like Dodge, only Chrysler is even worse off now that Dodge has the Hornet coming.
200 was a re-engineered Sebring, NOT a Dart. And it was well-done. My wife bought a 2012 new, and I bought a used 2011 in 2018. They are both excellent cars that have, and are, serving us well.
 

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200 was a re-engineered Sebring, NOT a Dart. And it was well-done. My wife bought a 2012 new, and I bought a used 2011 in 2018. They are both excellent cars that have, and are, serving us well.
You're thinking the first gen 200. The second gen was based off of CUSW and developed alongside the Dart (there, you happy? haha!)
 

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The 200 was a rebadged Dart, which also failed. So while it was a Chrysler model, it wasn't all that big of an investment...it was an existing Fiat platform mildly reengineered as a Dodge and Chrysler model. If they spend billions on that they need to be asking where the money went.
Well that's not how things went at all, the 200 actually did require significant investment. The money they wasted customizing CUSW was essentially wasted.

The Pacifica was a rather large investment, and thank the car gods that it went reasonably well because right now it's Chrysler's only model once the 300 bows out. Which is a very bad thing, I have doubts Chrysler can last long enough with just a minivan to come up with more bespoke models. Rebadged Peugeots and Fiats and Opels on the other hand might give them a lifeline until they can get through a product design cycle. Though to be honest I don't see Peugeot, Opel, Citroen, Fiat, and Chrysler making completely bespoke models (and you can probably throw Alfa and Dodge into the pot too). There's going to be platform and parts sharing, it would be a waste of resources otherwise.
What do you mean "last long enough?" It's not like Stellantis doesn't realize Chrysler's revenue is going to be very low until new product comes in. I would think it was quite obvious to Christine Feuell and Carlos Tavares whether rebadging PSA products was going to make sense in this 3 year period until the Airflow + others are ready. Clearly they decided it wasn't worth the expense, no matter economical it may seem to those of us without the spreadsheets in front of us.

And not to be rude, but it couldn't be more obvious that none of these brands are going to get completely bespoke models. They've already came out in said as much several times. That's why they've been pushing the platform strategy talk all around the media the last year (STLA Small/Medium/Large/Frame).
 

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Well that's not how things went at all, the 200 actually did require significant investment. The money they wasted customizing CUSW was essentially wasted.



What do you mean "last long enough?" It's not like Stellantis doesn't realize Chrysler's revenue is going to be very low until new product comes in. I would think it was quite obvious to Christine Feuell and Carlos Tavares whether rebadging PSA products was going to make sense in this 3 year period until the Airflow + others are ready. Clearly they decided it wasn't worth the expense, no matter economical it may seem to those of us without the spreadsheets in front of us.

And not to be rude, but it couldn't be more obvious that none of these brands are going to get completely bespoke models. They've already came out in said as much several times. That's why they've been pushing the platform strategy talk all around the media the last year (STLA Small/Medium/Large/Frame).
And there's nothing wrong with that strategy. It's their only way forward. Underneath, the vehicles will share much, with each regional brand putting its own spin on it.
 

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If the 200 required "billiions" when it shared the platform with Dart, Cherokee and Pacifica, then it clearly demonstrates FCA's incompetence.

Platform sharing should reduce costs for other vehicles on the same platform. But FCA never quite got this.

It was cheaper and smarter to create WL as clean sheet than to adapt Giorgio.

You can see that they needed to spend a lot to, once again, revise Giorgio so it could take batteries for the Folgore line.

FCA platforms were not flexible enough. Basically you just ended up with new platforms.
 

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200 was a re-engineered Sebring, NOT a Dart. And it was well-done. My wife bought a 2012 new, and I bought a used 2011 in 2018. They are both excellent cars that have, and are, serving us well.
Thank Jim Press. I worked on the 200 when Cerberus got the ball rolling.
Tweaked the front, rear, interior and chassis retuning.
I still like the Eminem commercial.
 

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Thank Jim Press. I worked on the 200 when Cerberus got the ball rolling.
Tweaked the front, rear, interior and chassis retuning.
I still like the Eminem commercial.
That was the initial 200 before the FCA "clean sheet" model launched. Definitely a much improved Sebring.
 
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If the 200 required "billiions" when it shared the platform with Dart, Cherokee and Pacifica, then it clearly demonstrates FCA's incompetence.
Platform sharing should reduce costs for other vehicles on the same platform. But FCA never quite got this.
It was cheaper and smarter to create WL as clean sheet than to adapt Giorgio.
You can see that they needed to spend a lot to, once again, revise Giorgio so it could take batteries for the Folgore line.
FCA platforms were not flexible enough. Basically you just ended up with new platforms.
We certainly agree there. However, the point was not "did they spend money on Chrysler wisely," it was "did they spend money on Chrysler," and they did.

Thank Jim Press. I worked on the 200 when Cerberus got the ball rolling.
Tweaked the front, rear, interior and chassis retuning.
I still like the Eminem commercial.
You did a dang good job on it, too, to the point that the billions-of-dollars New 200 wasn't as big an improvement as it needed to be.
 

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We certainly agree there. However, the point was not "did they spend money on Chrysler wisely," it was "did they spend money on Chrysler," and they did.



You did a dang good job on it, too, to the point that the billions-of-dollars New 200 wasn't as big an improvement as it needed to be.
Press also got the minivan and full size cars going too. I was in chassis at that time.
 

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Can anyone help me to find out the torsional rigidity data for the current Charger/300? From my use experience I feel it is very rigid, similar to the BMW F10 5 series.

I know the past-gen LX platform torsional rigidity is ~17,900 nm/deg, and F10 5 series is 30,200 nm/deg.
 

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Can anyone help me to find out the torsional rigidity data for the current Charger/300? From my use experience I feel it is very rigid, similar to the BMW F10 5 series.

I know the past-gen LX platform torsional rigidity is ~17,900 nm/deg, and F10 5 series is 30,200 nm/deg.
It may be in the press releases from 2015. Every generation is more rigid than the one before.
 

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I looked through all the press release materials, they just said the rigidity is improved, but no concrete numbers are given. Appreciate any one familiar with this topic can provide the info.
Ah... gotcha. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, I remember numbers but that could have been from the 2011s or from the Rams or from anything else. I don't know where you'd look.
 

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I came on here just to comment that I was lucky enough to get in on the reservation last Tuesday night, already paid my $300 deposit to Chrysler and have already met with my selected dealer and ordered my red 300 C.

As the current owner of a very-loved 2013 300 C John Varvatos LE, I'm thrilled Chrysler finally paid attention to the 300 and did something for its send off. I was already planning to order a 2023 Challenger Scat Pack as my "final new car," as I own 6 cars and have no intention of buying an electric car.

Could Chrysler have done more? Sure...but I think this package is great as-is. It has all the features of my 2013, loaded C...from adaptive cruise to leather dash and door panels to the Harmon Kardon stereo...adding a 392, active exhaust, active suspension, SRT pages, Laguna leather buckets, carbon trim....for a paltry $3,000 more than my 300 stickered for 10 YEARS AGO.

I don't think people realize what a deal this car truly is. A Scat Pack with none of the above (Except the active exhaust, HK stereo and SRT pages) is over $60k!! The car is cool...the car is unique...and honestly, its a steal in this market.

I can't wait to get mine. The fact that my local dealer knew almost nothing about the car, or the reveal, and isn't even confident I'll get the order built, is of concern.

A couple calls to Chrysler 300 C Concierge indicates so long as I have the deposit logged, my reservation was placed right after the reveal on Tuesday night, and the dealer orders the car...we "should be good." But even the concierge admitted several people ordered multiple cars and they're going through a weed out process.

Let's hope they don't weed me out because I've been crying all over Chrysler's FB page for this car for years...
 

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It's not aspirational. It's not meant to be. She's essentially saying Chrysler will become Chevy, Ford, or Toyota (or Hyundai). They're the mass market brand now. Makes sense with Dodge chasing horsepower (and now corner carving). Stellantis needs a mass market brand for the US and it just makes more sense to re-use something that already exists (Chrysler) than trying to create Peugot from whole cloth (or try AGAIN to re-create FIAT). And if they try to do that with Dodge they'll get a mass rebellion of the gearheads, where Dodge is actually successful and has some growth potential. Chrysler wasn't going anwhere. Now it might. It may not be aspirational, but the brand now has a future.
Dodge may be chasing horsepower but based on the price of the Hornet it's still mainstream. They honestly have no idea what to do with Chrysler. She went from saying blue collar luxury to this.
 

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Dodge may be chasing horsepower but based on the price of the Hornet it's still mainstream. They honestly have no idea what to do with Chrysler. She went from saying blue collar luxury to this.
Yeah, I really think they're conflicted..it has to be the mainstream brand, but no one wants it to be. I think right now everyone misses Plymouth, but they don't have Plymouth, and pricing aside, the Hornet is not going to sell to RAV4 buyers (thought Mazda CX-30 and CX-5 buyers could probably be swayed). I doubt the suspension and throttle will be appliancy-enough to be mainstream on the Hornet. Now, if you can take a Hornet and de-Alfa-ify it, maybe..but why not just work with the 500x for now? It doesn't sell as a FIAt but it doesn't sell because it's a FIAT.

Anyway, if you turn Chrysler into a premium brand, and you have Dodge as a sporty brand with some of the premium handed down from Alfa, and Jeep is offroad (sort of a Subaru competitor right now)...then where do you put the mass market stuff? It has to go somewhere. Unless you just abandon that market and become a 100% niche manufacturer in the US. Which I guess is possible but I'm not sure would work out well.
 

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Yeah, I really think they're conflicted..it has to be the mainstream brand, but no one wants it to be. I think right now everyone misses Plymouth, but they don't have Plymouth, and pricing aside, the Hornet is not going to sell to RAV4 buyers (thought Mazda CX-30 and CX-5 buyers could probably be swayed). I doubt the suspension and throttle will be appliancy-enough to be mainstream on the Hornet. Now, if you can take a Hornet and de-Alfa-ify it, maybe..but why not just work with the 500x for now? It doesn't sell as a FIAt but it doesn't sell because it's a FIAT.

Anyway, if you turn Chrysler into a premium brand, and you have Dodge as a sporty brand with some of the premium handed down from Alfa, and Jeep is offroad (sort of a Subaru competitor right now)...then where do you put the mass market stuff? It has to go somewhere. Unless you just abandon that market and become a 100% niche manufacturer in the US. Which I guess is possible but I'm not sure would work out well.
The 500x has poor fuel economy for the size class. Let’s not contaminate what’s left of Chrysler’s image with a inefficient “economy” car that hasn’t been known for quality. If 500x was a good car it would sell regardless of nameplate. But it’s not, and its platform mate, Jeep Renegade isn’t selling well even without the Fiat name.
 
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I came on here just to comment that I was lucky enough to get in on the reservation last Tuesday night, already paid my $300 deposit to Chrysler and have already met with my selected dealer and ordered my red 300 C.

As the current owner of a very-loved 2013 300 C John Varvatos LE, I'm thrilled Chrysler finally paid attention to the 300 and did something for its send off. I was already planning to order a 2023 Challenger Scat Pack as my "final new car," as I own 6 cars and have no intention of buying an electric car.

Could Chrysler have done more? Sure...but I think this package is great as-is. It has all the features of my 2013, loaded C...from adaptive cruise to leather dash and door panels to the Harmon Kardon stereo...adding a 392, active exhaust, active suspension, SRT pages, Laguna leather buckets, carbon trim....for a paltry $3,000 more than my 300 stickered for 10 YEARS AGO.

I don't think people realize what a deal this car truly is. A Scat Pack with none of the above (Except the active exhaust, HK stereo and SRT pages) is over $60k!! The car is cool...the car is unique...and honestly, its a steal in this market.

I can't wait to get mine. The fact that my local dealer knew almost nothing about the car, or the reveal, and isn't even confident I'll get the order built, is of concern.

A couple calls to Chrysler 300 C Concierge indicates so long as I have the deposit logged, my reservation was placed right after the reveal on Tuesday night, and the dealer orders the car...we "should be good." But even the concierge admitted several people ordered multiple cars and they're going through a weed out process.

Let's hope they don't weed me out because I've been crying all over Chrysler's FB page for this car for years...
I agree with you. In fact, although a HC engine in 300 is "nice to have", the best use case for that level of power is through AWD with a certain off-road capability. With that being said, for Hellcats, I would rather buy SUV/truck models (Durango Hellcat or the TRX).
 
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