Chryslers last stand

voiceofstl · 2023-03-17

The coming few years will tell us if Chrysler will still be around. The replacment of the 300 has to be a winner. Its time to make the decision. Chryler will be the People mover and have cars to compete with toyota. They have to have more then 2 models, they need a small suv and a midsize suv.

npaladin2000

· #17 · 2 mo ago

Right now Chrysler is a blank slate. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though there are people who can't let go of the various pasts. WIth the 300 gone, Chrysler is not a luxury or premium car maker. It makes minivans. And...hybrid minivans. And FCAllantis needs a volume brand in the US. The platforms exist to provide Chrysler with a decent lineup: rework the Compass into a 2WD compact crossover, maybe a resyled Giulia and/or Stelvio, might be a little expensive but that's got to be amortized by now from a research and design perspective. Keep them all 2WD so they don't compete with Jeep (with Jeep getting expensive, cheaper 2WD options would probably be welcome anyway). Maybe even finally make a (long overdue) passenger version of the ProMaster and sell it as a Chrysler maxivan.

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npaladin2000

· #19 · 2 mo ago

npaladin2000 said:
there are people who can't let go of the various pasts.

NiharM33 said:
Chrysler should be positioned against Buick and Lincoln

Well, thank you for proving my point.

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npaladin2000

· #21 · 2 mo ago

NiharM33 said:
And Dodge should handle Tesla.

I'm trying to decide whether I should have you comitted or ask you to pass it over. 🤣 🤣

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· #26 · 2 mo ago

saltony said:
My feeling is that the Chrysler and Dodge brand will go away. Jeep makes up 46% of sales follow by Ram which is 38%. In ten years time when the brass at Stellantis sits down and look at the ROI, Some brands will be trimed. Has to be because 14 brand names is a lot to take care of. When Fiat and Chrysler merged and came up with the name FCA, I bet they had second thoughts because if the brass came up with another name, Chrysler and Dodge would have been dropped.

Stellantis bought FCA to get Jeep. FCA bought Chrysler LLC to get Jeep. Daimler bought Chrysler to get Jeep. Chrysler bought AMC to get Jeep. AMC bought Kaiser to get...Jeep. Kaiser bought Willys Overland to get...wait for it...Jeep. No one wants the brands that own Jeep, they just want Jeep.

I tend to agree that Chrysler and Dodge may be dropped. I hope not, but it's still looking that way to me. At least Dodge is trying to go out with less of a whimper than Chrysler right now, unless Fuell can come up with something.

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npaladin2000

· #37 · 2 mo ago

Bob Lincoln said:
But, as said, they have a clean slate. Most people I know think Chrysler hasn't existed for several years.
And when I was a kid, Chrysler WAS perceived as a luxury brand.

When you were a kid, weren't round wheels a newfangled thing? 🤣 🤣

We're not dealing with "then." We're at now now. We can't go back to then, we passed, it just now. When will then be now? Not soon. And yes, you're surrounded by A-holes.

These days Chrysler is not percieved as a luxury brand. Chrysler is barely percieved at all in fact, as you pointed out. But the other problem is that Ma Stella has plans for Alfa and Maserati, and they don't want Chrysler mucking things up by trying to compete with them. If Chrysler tries to be premium, they will get smacked down.

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· #62 · 2 mo ago

I'm not sure how far off the Airflow even is. It was and still is a concept car. I think they need something besides the Pacifica to bridge the gap. I don't know what, and I don't know where they'd get it, though frankly it's hard to go wrong with a compact crossover. Not impossible, just hard. That or start federalizing Peugeots and Citroens (no, I don't think that's a good idea, just that it's one possible option).

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· #67 · 2 mo ago

saltony said:
Dodge makes up 10% and Chrysler makes up 8%. Where would you put your money in to develope new vehicles? Dodge being a muscle car brand but with electricfication coming in does that make any sense at all? I don't believe so.

Plus Dodge's most recent new model actually came from Alfa. Which I don't mind very much by itself, Alfa makes some nice passionate cars, but it has to make you wonder.

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· #71 · 2 mo ago

aldo90731 said:
As deaf as Fiat executives were to the N.A. market, at least they had the lucidity to retain Dodge and Chrysler.

In fact, between 2009 and 2014, FCA seemed gung-ho about investing on Dodge and Chrysler. We got Chrysler 200 and Dart. But then they lost all interest and put all their eggs on Jeep and Ram.

aldo90731 said:
I am sorry, I think the Dodge Hornet is a bad joke...

FCA didn't "retain" Dodge and Chrysler. They were dying of inattention and attrition compared to the other brands. The Chrysler 200 and Dart barely count as "bare minimum." Especially since they were largely FIAT platform mates anyway. The Hornet, while you might think it's a "bad joke" is more effort and attention than Dodge has been shown by the parent in quite a while. And it is a performance car. It pretty much has to be, being Alfa-based. And it'll sell lots more than the Alfa version here. I wouldn't mind seeing Chrysler getting a lower horsepower, less upscale 2WD hybrid version. Or maybe something based on the overseas Compass 4xe, since the Compass is the platform the Hornet/Tonale spring from anyway. It would be a good start to expanding Chrysler's appeal as well as their lineup. Not to mention helping out CAFE ratings a little more.

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· #76 · 2 mo ago

aldo90731 said:
You are using the benefit of hindsight in your assessment of 200 and Dart, and hoping that Hornet turns out differently.

Damn right. I hope everyone hopes the Hornet turns out better

aldo90731 said:
Hornet may be better engineered than Dart was. But there is nothing about Hornet that says Dodge, performance pretensions notwithstanding --just like there was nothing about KL that said Jeep. At this point Dodge is just desperate for any new product and is willing to take an Alfa Romeo with no attempts to even disguise it.

If Chrysler knows what it's best for its brand, it won't take another hand-me down from Alfa Romeo.

Dodge's other option here was to have the Durango and that's it, for some amount of time. Sort of like the situation Chrysler is about to be in. I think we can agree that one model is not a good situation. While the Hornet is not the type of performance Dodge buyers are used to, it's still performance, and they're still trying to keep Dodge with a cohesive identity. With Chrysler, they have to build one. Fuell seems to be aware of that, treating the brand like a "start up." But on the other hand, it gives them some creative freedom, at least.

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npaladin2000

· #80 · 2 mo ago

valiant67 said:
Here’s my thought on Hornet. It’s a decent vehicle.
As part of a complete lineup it would have been OK.
As the first new Dodge in a decade it can’t live up to the hype and expectations.

I would agree, Dodge's lineup is still a shadow of what it should be. Still, it has to start somewhere, and it'll take time to fill it out some more.

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npaladin2000

· #83 · 2 mo ago

Dave Z said:
It's an addition, not a replacement

Few people seem to get that. Though I guess, with the V8 sedans going away at the same time as the Hornet is appearing, they think of it as "replacing." Even though a replacment muscle sedan is in the pipeline already (it might be electric but it's still RWD torque-monster muscle). Maybe Chrysler will get a more pedestrian version of the Banshee?

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npaladin2000

· #92 · 2 mo ago

77 Monaco Brougham said:
Since you and I are very close in age, it should come as no surprise that my earliest memory of a Mopar should be something similar:

Want an example of how strange the human memory can work?......This 1964 Belvidere is forever burned into my memory.

Why?, you might ask?

The Script / Font used on the front fenders to spell out "BELVIDERE" was the EXACT SAME font / script used on the opening credits of ABC-TV's situation-comedy series "Bewitched".

See......I told you the memory is a very strange thing!
View attachment 93786

Like the look of the car. Hate the name, can't see it without thinking of Mr. Belvedere...and consequently Mr. Baseball.

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npaladin2000

· #111 · 2 mo ago

valiant67 said:
And there is no wow factor to defining a brand as a people mover. A city bus or an airplane is a people mover. So is an escalator.

Nobody considers Chevy or Toyota a "wow" brand either. But people keep buying them.

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npaladin2000

· #137 · 2 mo ago

NiharM33 said:
Younger people like the 2008 gen Sebrings, especially the convertible View attachment 93826
View attachment 93827

No, younger people do NOT "like" the things. They get them because they're cheap and plentiful.

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npaladin2000

· #172 · 2 mo ago

77 Monaco Brougham said:
Hmmmmmm......I wonder how you feel about ITALIAN engineering?

It's probably worth it to think about, that at least Italian cars get sold here. Ferrari, Lambo, etc, never left. Maserati and Alfa are back...such that they are anyway. FIAT...arguable. Peugeot? Citroen? Renault? Nope. And no plans to try to reintroduce them. Didn't I read somewhere that Peugeots get made in Mexico but they aren't allowed to even cross the border?

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· #194 · 2 mo ago

Adventurer55 said:
They're starting out slow, then before one knows it, everything will cost to listen, view, or keep your [I should have my mouth washed out with soap for using such terms] warm.

Used to be radio and CDs, right? Now it's SiriusXM, Spotify, YouTube Music, Deezer, etc etc etc. Wait until Google Maps and Waze are subscription services.

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npaladin2000

· #208 · 1 mo ago (Edited)

LouJC said:
Whoever is making the decisions does not understand traditional customers. Painfully obvious; they walk away from what they were good at! The WRONG management!

Erik Latranyi said:
What you are failing to understand is that the management today is shackled by the poor management of the past. They cannot prioritize your preferences when they must prioritize compliance.

Ford and GM can prioritize performance because they were always managing compliance.

To expand on this (context is needed), up to this point FCA/Stella USA/Whatever you call it has not had high mileage cars for sale. Its highest mileage volume vehicles were the Compass and Renegade...which frankly aren't very high mileage for their sizes or their engines. The Dart was dropped, the 200 was dropped, the Renegade and Compass get 23/29 so they really aren't any help in the CAFE department. The hybrid Pacifica is only a little better, at 30 MPG combined (Chrysler's site only provides the MPGe figure, by the way). Yeah, no help there either.

There's a reason Ford's base Maverick is a hybrid (and gets 40 MPG!), and there's a reason they still sell the EcoSport (it's not because people like it). Those both give Ford high MPG offsets to their V8 engines, allowing them to meet CAFE requirements without paying Elon Musk a bundle or paying a bunch of fines which add up to slight more than what Elon wants for credits. Ironically if they had kept the Dart and 200 around they'd have a little more flexibility right now. Even though the models themselves were not selling well, and not profitable, they had a benefit when it came to CAFE impact. Same with the 500, which is also now gone. They're painted themselves into a corner right now. Probably their best way out is to imitate Ford, bring the Rampage here with a hybrid powertrain, and find a smaller engine to stuff inside the 500X and keep that around too. But they have no plans for either one, which means all they can do is cut the other side of the CAFE range to bring things back into balance. That would be the Hellcat V8. It'll probably work...but as we're seeing here, that's also alienating a loyal customer base.

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· #210 · 1 mo ago

somber said:
Where are you getting those numbers? fueleconomy.gov lists hybrid Pacifica at 30 MPG combined city/hwy for gas only, and 82 MPGe combined for gas and electric.

Edit: I see your mistake now - you're giving the numbers for the NON-hybrid Pacifica.

Yeah my search got messed up, I'll correct it. Still not all that impressive, and not all that helpful for their CAFE numbers. And it's interesting that Chrysler's site doesn't provide MPGs at all, just the MPGe figure.

Tire Wheel Vehicle registration plate Grille Vehicle

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· #213 · 1 mo ago

LouJC said:
Ok guys Chrysler has been owned/run by EUROPEANS since 1998 except for the brief Cerebus era. You would think EUROPEANS having had high fuel taxes and engine displacement taxes like nearly forever would understand this! Daimler drops the Neon with no replacement. FCA drops 200 and Dart. I don’t see any benefit to Chrysler from any of the foreign ownership for them to be in the position they are in now…

So....mean ole' FoMoCo and General Motors, American owned and managed, are in better shape than FCA/Stellantis managed by "enlightened" Europeans, what a kick in the head!

I think it's less that they're European and more that...well, they're European, but not in the sense you were talking about. They don't understand American CAFE rules, which are very different from Europe's...and they DO understand that Americans like big high horsepower cars that can't steer, because, ya know, NASCAR. 🤣 But they don't know how to play the system the way Ford, and GM does. They're also now clearly working with what Europe gives them, not what they can build on their own.

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