Chryslers last stand

10814 Views 218 Replies 37 Participants Last post by 1116Arthur, 1 mo ago

voiceofstl

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

The coming few years will tell us if Chrysler will still be around.
The replacment of the 300 has to be a winner.
Its time to make the decision. Chryler will be the People mover and have cars to compete with toyota.
They have to have more then 2 models, they need a small suv and a midsize suv.

Reactions: 1

41 - 61 of 219 Posts

NiharM33

· #41 · 3 mo ago

It's kind of a double-edged sword approach being best by recalling heritage through design, as well as addressing quality issues.

For example, if I were to bring back the Imperial today as the large liftback, I would ask Imperial owners or other 90s/2000s Chrysler owners what was wrong and address those issues in said model. I would be very open about addressing previous issues and being more than sure they're corrected.

Reactions: 2

aldo90731

· #42 · 3 mo ago

Bob Lincoln said:
Only current Chrysler owners remember. People outside the brand won't and often don't.

That’s my point: EVERYBODY remembers, not just forum members or loyal owners.

When Chrysler 300 and Fiat 500 launched they had to reach well beyond their existing —in Fiat’s case non-existing— immediate following.

Customers are mostly unaware of dormant memories. So it is the task of the designers and the brand managers to bring those memories back to surface.

Granted, the task is more difficult when you have to move a brand from ICEs to EVs. But Fiat 500e appears to have done the transition very effectively.

Reactions: 5

valiant67

· #43 · 3 mo ago

NiharM33 said:
I would ask Imperial owners or other 90s/2000s Chrysler owners what was wrong

The most common reply of that was wrong would probably be "I'm dead."

Reactions: 5

NiharM33

· #43 · 3 mo ago

valiant67 said:
The most common reply of that was wrong would probably be "I'm dead."

...Because...X went wrong and Y failed, right? So you would address those components of the car.

MIKE3187

· #44 · 3 mo ago

Elroy the Brave said:
Disagree. No one views Chrysler as a luxury brand.

And no one seems Buick and to some degree Lincoln as that either 😂

Reactions: 5

NiharM33

· #45 · 3 mo ago

The question is though, how many of those faults are relevant in an electric vehicle? Probably still some but not all of them. The transmission still needs to be solid, but if it was engine parts, that won't be relevant in an EV age. But now you need to make sure you're using a reliable battery platform.

valiant67

· #46 · 3 mo ago (Edited)

NiharM33 said:
...Because...X went wrong and Y failed, right? So you would address those components of the car.

No, because the average age of the people who bought new Chryslers in the late 1980s/early 1990s was pretty high. Take that old age and add 30-40 years, and many of those original K car New Yorker/Imperial purchasers are now dead. And I would not go back to those cars. They are irrelevant now.
Plus you don't ask people what they want changed. They will (intentionally or not) lie to you, trying to tell you what they think you want to hear
"Voice of the Customer" is basically worthless. "Observational Voice of the Customer" is where you learn.
The best example I am aware of in Chrysler's history was the 1994 Dodge Ram. They didn't ask people what they wanted in a new pickup. They watched people using their existing trucks and found the pain points - and addressed those.

Reactions: 5

NiharM33

· #47 · 3 mo ago

CarComplaints.com | Car Problems, Car Complaints, & Repair/Recall Information

Free help for car problems, repairs and recalls. What's wrong with YOUR car?

www.carcomplaints.com

aldo90731

· #48 · 3 mo ago

I believe the lines between luxury and non luxury have been blurred forever.

Today half the Jeep and Ram lineup costs more than many BMWs and Mercedes. Dodges are now more expensive than Acuras and Infinitis. This leaves brands like Buick and Lincoln in a precarious position.

At the other end you now have Honda having to compete on price against the Koreans like never before.

Genesis is eating Acura’s and Infiniti’s lunch.

Reactions: 3

valiant67

· #49 · 3 mo ago

NiharM33 said:
CarComplaints.com | Car Problems, Car Complaints, & Repair/Recall Information

Free help for car problems, repairs and recalls. What's wrong with YOUR car?

www.carcomplaints.com

That website is just noise.
That's not how you study what is wrong with a car design.
You need scientific studies. People bash them, but JD Powers studies are much more scientific and controlled than random posts on websites.
Even internal data on warranty cost is more valuable than that website.

Reactions: 5

Adventurer55

· #50 · 3 mo ago

valiant67 said:
This much is obvious, judging by timing throughout Chrysler’s history regardless of ownership.
The day they drop Chrysler and Dodge will mark the point where the auto market returns with a vengeance to passenger cars.

You got that right!

Reactions: 5

Cleffy

· #51 · 3 mo ago

The Korean Brands are doing well because they have incredibly bold styling. The quality of the vehicle hasn't improved much. With a Kia you are still getting compromises to get it into its price point. Not so much for Genesis.

Erik Latranyi

· #52 · 3 mo ago

Why does this sound like the VAG Scout thread with the argument that nobody remembers the brand?

Christine Feuell said that she is treating Chrysler as a "startup" but tapping into its history. I think that is a good way of looking at it if they can evoke the good memories using modern, new features.

That is sorta what the LX was....all new, modern but tied to the past as well.

Reactions: 5

voiceofstl

Discussion Starter · #53 · 3 mo ago

ImperialCrown said:
We aren't going to & shouldn't try to compete against Toyota. Their ballpark is not our ballpark. After 18 years of a successful 300, maybe it's time for another benchmark?
Chrysler's past home runs have been done by vehicles that no one else had at the time. The turbine evaluation car, the minivan, the PT, the Hemi, the re-introduction of the convertible, etc.

The Airflow II is a worthy concept car. A little nostalgia, a lot of technology, prudent utility & common sense.

We got 10 years to prove that we belong in the Stellantis portfolio. We have a lot of brands under one roof. Some may go away.
Chrysler has had its share of ups & downs, it would be a shame if it got cancelled for lack of interest. Not everything can or should be a Jeep or a Ram. I still enjoy a sensible 'luxury/prestige/comfort' sedan as a daily driver.

"We aren't going to & shouldn't try to compete against Toyota. Their ballpark is not our ballpark. " Thats because we play in the empty lot down the street.
Isn't the 300 in the same price range as a high end Camry and Avalon.
To suceed Chrysler has to compete in the mainstream that means both chevy and buick.
For old timers here chrysler has to be more Plymouth then imperial.

Reactions: 2

aldo90731

· #54 · 3 mo ago

Cleffy said:
The Korean Brands are doing well because they have incredibly bold styling. The quality of the vehicle hasn't improved much. With a Kia you are still getting compromises to get it into its price point. Not so much for Genesis.

The Koreans are doing well because the Big 3’s average transaction price is now $55,000, while the Koreans’ is $35,000. Meanwhile, median US household income is $75,000. How is the average US household supposed to buy a $55,000 truck? Lump it into their home mortgage?*

Add to that avant-garde styling, gobs of innovative technology, a 10-year warranty, and it becomes a no-brainer.

__
*A lot of households have been doing that; it is going to come and bite them.

Reactions: 5

codypet

· #55 · 3 mo ago

2

Erik Latranyi said:
Why does this sound like the VAG Scout thread with the argument that nobody remembers the brand?

Christine Feuell said that she is treating Chrysler as a "startup" but tapping into its history. I think that is a good way of looking at it if they can evoke the good memories using modern, new features.

That is sorta what the LX was....all new, modern but tied to the past as well.

I'm nearly 40. This is the earliest Chrysler I remember.

Automotive parking light Tire Wheel Vehicle Cloud

I had no idea when the 300 came out that it was trying to evoke the 50's 300 and wasn't a baby Bentley.
The 300 I remembered looked like this and it was owned by my girlfriend's grandmother.

Automotive parking light Wheel Tire Car Vehicle

The Chrysler I pined for growing up was a 95 New Yorker even then they were primarily sold to people in their 60's and 70's. Most people who aren't enthusiasts that I ask about Chrysler know its Michael Scotts car from the Office. Why did he have a Sebring? Because the joke was the flawed character with his limited budget would think it was a fancy car and a good deal.

Being nearly 40, I'm likely already outside of the primary demographic these companies are aiming for so in a way, yep its a clean sheet. The Pacifica is actually doing a decent job keeping the limited reputation decent. Everyone I know who's seen and touched one admits its very nice, but "they don't like minivans". If they can keep that formula in the Airflow or some sort of EV wagon or car and fast, they could pull it off. But they have to beat all the other auto makers to market with good quality product.

Dodge's reputation is starting to suffer from cool brand to bad credit specials for guys who need attention. Dodge is going to have to evolve too if wants to survive as well. What kept it well rounded and ground ironically enough was the Caravan, Journey, and Dart. IMO Dodge can have both in the EV space. You can make a round of EV's (cars and CUV's and even a minivan) optimized for performance with muscular styling (Dual Motors), Chrysler with the same platforms with softer styling, optimized for EV and PHEV range (Single Motors), and let Jeep be Jeep. Small, Medium and large trail runners.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

aldo90731

· #56 · 3 mo ago

Erik Latranyi said:
Why does this sound like the VAG Scout thread with the argument that nobody remembers the brand?

Christine Feuell said that she is treating Chrysler as a "startup" but tapping into its history. I think that is a good way of looking at it if they can evoke the good memories using modern, new features.

That is sorta what the LX was....all new, modern but tied to the past as well.

Agree a 100%. But the devil is in the details. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

If the Chrysler Airflow or Dodge Charger EV turn out to be as impactful as they are hinting them to be, that might be the final push I need to get an EV.

Of course the price will matter. If they come in with a starting price of $60,000+, they can keep both of hem. I’ll keep my cars.

Reactions: 2

Elroy the Brave

· #57 · 3 mo ago

aldo90731 said:
No one views Jeep as a luxury brand either, but this hasn’t stopped FCA/Stellantis either...

Hopefully Jeep will start selling vehicles soon. They are struggling to sell right now. Might have too many expensive vehicles that not enough people can afford to buy.

Reactions: 3

aldo90731

· #58 · 3 mo ago

codypet said:
I'm nearly 40. This is the earliest Chrysler I remember.
View attachment 93769
I had no idea when the 300 came out that it was trying to evoke the 50's 300 and wasn't a baby Bentley.
The 300 I remembered looked like this and it was owned by my girlfriend's grandmother.
View attachment 93770
The Chrysler I pined for growing up was a 95 New Yorker even then they were primarily sold to people in their 60's and 70's. Most people who aren't enthusiasts that I ask about Chrysler know its Michael Scotts car from the Office. Why did he have a Sebring? Because the joke was the flawed character with his limited budget would think it was a fancy car and a good deal.

Being nearly 40, I'm likely already outside of the primary demographic these companies are aiming for so in a way, yep its a clean sheet. The Pacifica is actually doing a decent job keeping the limited reputation decent. Everyone I know who's seen and touched one admits its very nice, but "they don't like minivans". If they can keep that formula in the Airflow or some sort of EV wagon or car and fast, they could pull it off. But they have to beat all the other auto makers to market with good quality product.

Dodge's reputation is starting to suffer from cool brand to bad credit specials for guys who need attention. Dodge is going to have to evolve too if wants to survive as well. What kept it well rounded and ground ironically enough was the Caravan, Journey, and Dart. IMO Dodge can have both in the EV space. You can make a round of EV's (cars and CUV's and even a minivan) optimized for performance with muscular styling (Dual Motors), Chrysler with the same platforms with softer styling, optimized for EV and PHEV range (Single Motors), and let Jeep be Jeep. Small, Medium and large trail runners.

Whether you were aware or not, you knew somewhere in your consciousness that the LX 300 was a Chrysler through and through based on our collective knowledge of the brand —from our parents, movies, TV shows, books, etc.

The launch of the Fiat 500 was no different. In 2012 Fiat was largely an unknown entity in North America. But people knew, at some level of consciousness, that small, tiny and cute = Fiat. Fiat’s problem was that N.A. consumers, also at some level of consciousness, equated Fiat with shoddy quality. But Fiat executives were in denial about the latter and the rest is now history...

Dodge’s situation is no different. The vast majority of Dodge buyers weren’t around during the muscle car era. But that didn’t stop them from recognizing a modern Dodge. Granted, muscle cars were a tiny faction of Dodge’s history...

Reactions: 5

aldo90731

· #59 · 3 mo ago

Elroy the Brave said:
Hopefully Jeep will start selling vehicles soon. They are struggling to sell right now. Might have too many expensive vehicles that not enough people can afford to buy.

Well, for Jeep to lower its prices they would first need to admit that it is NOT a luxury brand.

I don’t think Jeep/Stellantis executives are anywhere near that point yet.

Reactions: 3

Adventurer55

· #60 · 3 mo ago

The Chrysler brands last hit was the 300. Almost 20 years ago. That my friends is an eternity in the car business. That's at least two or three real updates and at least one entirely new model product cycle. Tom Gale was really the last person that understood. No one since has come close.

Reactions: 5

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