[aldo90731]

Yes. Of 30+ vehicles that I have owned, my 2006 and 2007 Chrysler 300s rank near the top in terms of reliable, hassle-free motoring, comfort, good looks and overall value.

Clearly a redo of the Chrysler 300 is not in the cards any more. That’s why I remain hopeful on the Airflow.

 

[npaladin2000]

I'm not sure how far off the Airflow even is. It was and still is a concept car. I think they need something besides the Pacifica to bridge the gap. I don't know what, and I don't know where they'd get it, though frankly it's hard to go wrong with a compact crossover. Not impossible, just hard. That or start federalizing Peugeots and Citroens (no, I don't think that's a good idea, just that it's one possible option).

 

[Bob Lincoln]

I'm nearly 40. This is the earliest Chrysler I remember.
View attachment 93769
I had no idea when the 300 came out that it was trying to evoke the 50's 300 and wasn't a baby Bentley.
The 300 I remembered looked like this and it was owned by my girlfriend's grandmother.
View attachment 93770
The Chrysler I pined for growing up was a 95 New Yorker even then they were primarily sold to people in their 60's and 70's. Most people who aren't enthusiasts that I ask about Chrysler know its Michael Scotts car from the Office. Why did he have a Sebring? Because the joke was the flawed character with his limited budget would think it was a fancy car and a good deal.

Being nearly 40, I'm likely already outside of the primary demographic these companies are aiming for so in a way, yep its a clean sheet. The Pacifica is actually doing a decent job keeping the limited reputation decent. Everyone I know who's seen and touched one admits its very nice, but "they don't like minivans". If they can keep that formula in the Airflow or some sort of EV wagon or car and fast, they could pull it off. But they have to beat all the other auto makers to market with good quality product.

Dodge's reputation is starting to suffer from cool brand to bad credit specials for guys who need attention. Dodge is going to have to evolve too if wants to survive as well. What kept it well rounded and ground ironically enough was the Caravan, Journey, and Dart. IMO Dodge can have both in the EV space. You can make a round of EV's (cars and CUV's and even a minivan) optimized for performance with muscular styling (Dual Motors), Chrysler with the same platforms with softer styling, optimized for EV and PHEV range (Single Motors), and let Jeep be Jeep. Small, Medium and large trail runners.

I'm nearly 62. This is the earliest Chrysler I remember:

 

[Cleffy]

Chrysler's last hit was the Pacifica. Minivans sell well due to lack of competition. However it was no where near the fleet sales of Dodge Caravans. Not sure where that market went.

 

[MIKE3187]

Yes. Of 30+ vehicles that I have owned, my 2006 and 2007 Chrysler 300s rank near the top in terms of reliable, hassle-free motoring, comfort, good looks and overall value.

Clearly a redo of the Chrysler 300 is not in the cards any more. That’s why I remain hopeful on the Airflow.

Where are you getting that from? Last I heard 300 as it was wouldnt come back but would be reimagined

 

[saltony]

My feeling is that the Chrysler and Dodge brand will go away. Jeep makes up 46% of sales follow by Ram which is 38%. In ten years time when the brass at Stellantis sits down and look at the ROI, Some brands will be trimed. Has to be because 14 brand names is a lot to take care of. When Fiat and Chrysler merged and came up with the name FCA, I bet they had second thoughts because if the brass came up with another name, Chrysler and Dodge would have been dropped.

Dodge makes up 10% and Chrysler makes up 8%. Where would you put your money in to develope new vehicles? Dodge being a muscle car brand but with electricfication coming in does that make any sense at all? I don't believe so.

 

[npaladin2000]

Dodge makes up 10% and Chrysler makes up 8%. Where would you put your money in to develope new vehicles? Dodge being a muscle car brand but with electricfication coming in does that make any sense at all? I don't believe so.

Plus Dodge's most recent new model actually came from Alfa. Which I don't mind very much by itself, Alfa makes some nice passionate cars, but it has to make you wonder.

 

[aldo90731]

My feeling is that the Chrysler and Dodge brand will go away. Jeep makes up 46% of sales follow by Ram which is 38%. In ten years time when the brass at Stellantis sits down and look at the ROI, Some brands will be trimed. Has to be because 14 brand names is a lot to take care of. When Fiat and Chrysler merged and came up with the name FCA, I bet they had second thoughts because if the brass came up with another name, Chrysler and Dodge would have been dropped.

As deaf as Fiat executives were to the N.A. market, at least they had the lucidity to retain Dodge and Chrysler.

In fact, between 2009 and 2014, FCA seemed gung-ho about investing on Dodge and Chrysler. We got Chrysler 200 and Dart. But then they lost all interest and put all their eggs on Jeep and Ram.

 

[aldo90731]

Plus Dodge's most recent new model actually came from Alfa. Which I don't mind very much by itself, Alfa makes some nice passionate cars, but it has to make you wonder.

I am sorry, I think the Dodge Hornet is a bad joke...

 

[codypet]

I'm nearly 62. This is the earliest Chrysler I remember:

View attachment 93772

How many cars do you think in your lifetime will you be buying? Does designing a car to having hints of that car make sense for the market they're going for? I think Chrysler's marketing team look at me and probably market me as if I'm probably going to be 5 more cars in my life tops? So harkening even to the cars of the 90's maybe doesn't even make sense. They have to be aiming at a much younger age group than even me. Moreover, they probably aren't even trying to market to the people who keep their cars forever. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. Its just how they see things.

Someone rendered this as an EV minivan. I think it looks cool, but I could also see that being a flop for being ugly because the market they need to be going for wouldn't be looking for a car to look like this.

 

[npaladin2000]

As deaf as Fiat executives were to the N.A. market, at least they had the lucidity to retain Dodge and Chrysler.

In fact, between 2009 and 2014, FCA seemed gung-ho about investing on Dodge and Chrysler. We got Chrysler 200 and Dart. But then they lost all interest and put all their eggs on Jeep and Ram.

I am sorry, I think the Dodge Hornet is a bad joke...

FCA didn't "retain" Dodge and Chrysler. They were dying of inattention and attrition compared to the other brands. The Chrysler 200 and Dart barely count as "bare minimum." Especially since they were largely FIAT platform mates anyway. The Hornet, while you might think it's a "bad joke" is more effort and attention than Dodge has been shown by the parent in quite a while. And it is a performance car. It pretty much has to be, being Alfa-based. And it'll sell lots more than the Alfa version here. I wouldn't mind seeing Chrysler getting a lower horsepower, less upscale 2WD hybrid version. Or maybe something based on the overseas Compass 4xe, since the Compass is the platform the Hornet/Tonale spring from anyway. It would be a good start to expanding Chrysler's appeal as well as their lineup. Not to mention helping out CAFE ratings a little more.

 

[1116Arthur]

The coming few years will tell us if Chrysler will still be around.
The replacment of the 300 has to be a winner.
Its time to make the decision. Chryler will be the People mover and have cars to compete with toyota.
They have to have more then 2 models, they need a small suv and a midsize suv.

It turns out that Chysler already makes the best people mover. It is called a Pacifica (and Caravan and Voyager in olden times). However minivans are out of style and soccer moms want Tahoes and Grand Cherokees and any other of the many brands of SUVs. For family transportation the minivan is the best but this is not the 1980s any more.

 

[Bob Lincoln]

How many cars do you think in your lifetime will you be buying? Does designing a car to having hints of that car make sense for the market they're going for? I think Chrysler's marketing team look at me and probably market me as if I'm probably going to be 5 more cars in my life tops? So harkening even to the cars of the 90's maybe doesn't even make sense. They have to be aiming at a much younger age group than even me. Moreover, they probably aren't even trying to market to the people who keep their cars forever. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. Its just how they see things.

Someone rendered this as an EV minivan. I think it looks cool, but I could also see that being a flop for being ugly because the market they need to be going for wouldn't be looking for a car to look like this.
View attachment 93773

This is flawed reasoning, IMO. They don't base marketing and design on how many new cars an individual buys in a lifetime. They base it on the size of the market. Younger people age into different markets, so the individual membership in certain target designs will constantly change. As should the cars.
I've bought 2 new cars in my lifetime and am planning the 3rd, out of the 7 vehicles that I have owned. My wife has owned 3 cars in her lifetime, one of them new. All new sales went to Chrysler/FCA.
The average car ownership has gone from 7 to 11 years in recent times. So, no, no carmaker anywhere expects to sell 5 or more new cars to most people.

 

[aldo90731]

FCA didn't "retain" Dodge and Chrysler. They were dying of inattention and attrition compared to the other brands. The Chrysler 200 and Dart barely count as "bare minimum." Especially since they were largely FIAT platform mates anyway. The Hornet, while you might think it's a "bad joke" is more effort and attention than Dodge has been shown by the parent in quite a while. And it is a performance car. It pretty much has to be, being Alfa-based. And it'll sell lots more than the Alfa version here. I wouldn't mind seeing Chrysler getting a lower horsepower, less upscale 2WD hybrid version. Or maybe something based on the overseas Compass 4xe, since the Compass is the platform the Hornet/Tonale spring from anyway. It would be a good start to expanding Chrysler's appeal as well as their lineup. Not to mention helping out CAFE ratings a little more.

You are using the benefit of hindsight in your assessment of 200 and Dart, and hoping that Hornet turns out differently.

Hornet may be better engineered than Dart was. But there is nothing about Hornet that says Dodge, performance pretensions notwithstanding --just like there was nothing about KL that said Jeep. At this point Dodge is just desperate for any new product and is willing to take an Alfa Romeo with no attempts to even disguise it.

If Chrysler knows what it's best for its brand, it won't take another hand-me down from Alfa Romeo.

 

[aldo90731]

Chrysler's last hit was the Pacifica. Minivans sell well due to lack of competition. However it was no where near the fleet sales of Dodge Caravans. Not sure where that market went.

Pacifica was not a hit. It was an also-run entry into a shrinking segment.

The LX Chrysler 300 tripled consumer demand, revitalized the large sedan segment all by itself and sent the competition scrambling. Pacifica didn't do any of the sort.

 

[npaladin2000]

You are using the benefit of hindsight in your assessment of 200 and Dart, and hoping that Hornet turns out differently.

Damn right. I hope everyone hopes the Hornet turns out better

Hornet may be better engineered than Dart was. But there is nothing about Hornet that says Dodge, performance pretensions notwithstanding --just like there was nothing about KL that said Jeep. At this point Dodge is just desperate for any new product and is willing to take an Alfa Romeo with no attempts to even disguise it.

If Chrysler knows what it's best for its brand, it won't take another hand-me down from Alfa Romeo.

Dodge's other option here was to have the Durango and that's it, for some amount of time. Sort of like the situation Chrysler is about to be in. I think we can agree that one model is not a good situation. While the Hornet is not the type of performance Dodge buyers are used to, it's still performance, and they're still trying to keep Dodge with a cohesive identity. With Chrysler, they have to build one. Fuell seems to be aware of that, treating the brand like a "start up." But on the other hand, it gives them some creative freedom, at least.

 

[valiant67]

I recall them being so bold about Pacifica and its higher price (over the then out going minivan) that they told the price sensitive buyer to look elsewhere in the vehicle portfolio.
They’d had the same idea with the 200. The new vehicle would be more premium than the outgoing one.
The results? The 200 was cancelled in a hissy fit because the buyers didn’t believe it was more premium just because FCA said it was.
The same problem happened with Pacifica, people didn’t see the extra value FCA said was there. So the Grand Caravan hung around until they could make the Pacifica more price competitive. I imagine we weren’t far from a Pacifica hissy fit cancellation as well.

 

[valiant67]

Here’s my thought on Hornet. It’s a decent vehicle.
As part of a complete lineup it would have been OK.
As the first new Dodge in a decade it can’t live up to the hype and expectations.

 

[Adventurer55]

Chrysler's last hit was the Pacifica. Minivans sell well due to lack of competition. However it was no where near the fleet sales of Dodge Caravans. Not sure where that market went.

The Pacifica wasn't, isn't the hit they'd hoped for. They killed the original minivan the Caravan in favor of this. Honestly, they haven't had a good looking van since the Gale era. The last GC in 2008 was nowhere near as good looking as the one it replaced. Why? Because of the influence of that damn maxxcab look that seemed to spread over the whole Corporation until the 09 Ram. The first ugly thing to get that look was the new in 05 Dakota. God that was ugly inside and out.

 

[npaladin2000]

Here’s my thought on Hornet. It’s a decent vehicle.
As part of a complete lineup it would have been OK.
As the first new Dodge in a decade it can’t live up to the hype and expectations.

I would agree, Dodge's lineup is still a shadow of what it should be. Still, it has to start somewhere, and it'll take time to fill it out some more.