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Lasted 5 days!!!!


Sold the red GT last night. The value of the new pkg is a no brainer. We first looked at a nice SXT @ $20,125 (no 8.4,cloth interior,no u-connect, weak 2.0 engine and that damn base steering wheel)

For $2500 or a whopping $35more per month... The customer upgraded to the GT!!!
For $35 he went from "its ok" "I kinda like it" to "I LOVE IT!!"

LOVE and Value sells cars....... This pkg is the pkkg that the Dart should have offered a year ago. I am confident that if they just get their pricing and marketing right the Dart will be just fine.

LOVES...
the
auto start
8.4
two tone leather interior
back up camera
blind spot monitor
push button start
heated seats and steering wheel
Blue tooth connectivity with his Iphone5...

and he was perfectly fine sacrificing fuel economy for the fun to drive feel of the GT's 2.4 powerplant. (note he is trading a Wrangler so even the 2.4 is a major increase in MPG) :thumbsup:
 

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CJDsalespro said:
Lasted 5 days!!!!


Sold the red GT last night. The value of the new pkg is a no brainer. We first looked at a nice SXT @ $20,125 (no 8.4,cloth interior,no u-connect, weak 2.0 engine and that damn base steering wheel)

For $2500 or a whopping $35more per month... The customer upgraded to the GT!!!
For $35 he went from "its ok" "I kinda like it" to "I LOVE IT!!"

LOVE and Value sells cars....... This pkg is the pkkg that the Dart should have offered a year ago. I am confident that if they just get their pricing and marketing right the Dart will be just fine.

LOVES...
the
auto start
8.4
two tone leather interior
back up camera
blind spot monitor
push button start
heated seats and steering wheel
Blue tooth connectivity with his Iphone5...

and he was perfectly fine sacrificing fuel economy for the fun to drive feel of the GT's 2.4 powerplant. (note he is trading a Wrangler so even the 2.4 is a major increase in MPG) :thumbsup:
Congrats on the sale! I am pretty sure with the new packaging on the 2014's Dart sales are going to skyrocket, now if only marketing can get on the same pages it will truly be a hit.
 
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neongary said:
If a Mopar product is going to be competitive again in the performance 4 cyl. arena they are going to need 300 hp to keep up, especially with cars like the turbo 305 hp Subaru WRX and a 201 hp NA Honda. I'd like to see a SRT4 Dart and I believe "if they will build it, they will come".
As much as I would hope RG would have an STI in his sights for the performance level of the Dart I just don't think it will be set that high. The WRX is more attainable but I personally don't know how good the AWD parts bin is with FIAT/Chrysler. FWD cars with high HP/TQ is not exactly in the performance handbook and is generally horrible to drive. Fun yes, but asking the front wheels to steer and put 300hp on the ground at the same time is something nobody has done well (IMO). Does FIAT/Chrysler have access to a solid AWD system that is comparable to Subi they could use?

The Neon SRT and STI's of the mid 2000's are not even comparable performance wise in my book.
 

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BEEAH said:
The Neon SRT and STI's of the mid 2000's are not even comparable performance wise in my book.
Then you don't know the capabilities of an SRT4.

Mike
 

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srt4evah said:
I think we're on the same page.

Mopar 2.4L R/T with 210HP (emissions certified Mopar GTS 210) for $22k
Turbo 2.4L SRT with 285HP (same as Caliber SRT-4) for $25k

That would be just lovely, but I think it's a bit much to ask or expect at this stage.
x3

SRT would have to be FWD at that price point.
 

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Mike V. said:
Then you don't know the capabilities of an SRT4.

Mike
I do, I've driven both of them and auto crossed both of my 06 STI's. At the time the cars were not even in the same race class. I'm not saying the Neon SRT's were dogs by any means, I loved, LOVED driving the SRT Neon and would expect the Dart to be much more capeable. I could only hope and dream that an SRT Dart would have a solid AWD system with 300hp as I could easily be a customer. I would expect a ~250hp FWD Dart.

Ralph knows what an STI is capeable of as he lost to a father and son team at the 2011 Targa Newfoundland Rally while driving a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR. Which as many of us know is an insanely fast car and is still one of the fastest lap times around the Nurburgring for a production car.
 

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BEEAH said:
I do, I've driven both of them and auto crossed both of my 06 STI's. At the time the cars were not even in the same race class. I'm not saying the Neon SRT's were dogs by any means, I loved, LOVED driving the SRT Neon and would expect the Dart to be much more capeable. I could only hope and dream that an SRT Dart would have a solid AWD system with 300hp as I could easily be a customer. I would expect a ~250hp FWD Dart.

Ralph knows what an STI is capeable of as he lost to a father and son team at the 2011 Targa Newfoundland Rally while driving a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR. Which as many of us know is an insanely fast car and is still one of the fastest lap times around the Nurburgring for a production car.
You've "driven" an SRT-4 NEON... but not actually campaigned an SRT-4 NEON in a Race Series.... that's a huge difference.


I think a lot of people are living in the Past.... and unfortunately, those 30 People living in the Past aren't justification for Building/ Testing/ Certifying an AWD Turbo SRT that's going to cost $40K... that's the plain and simple truth.
 

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BEEAH said:
As much as I would hope RG would have an STI in his sights for the performance level of the Dart I just don't think it will be set that high. The WRX is more attainable but I personally don't know how good the AWD parts bin is with FIAT/Chrysler. FWD cars with high HP/TQ is not exactly in the performance handbook and is generally horrible to drive. Fun yes, but asking the front wheels to steer and put 300hp on the ground at the same time is something nobody has done well (IMO). Does FIAT/Chrysler have access to a solid AWD system that is comparable to Subi they could use?
YES. There was a car called the Lancia Delta Integrale that won 6 WRC titles in a row and people are still raving about it today when pitched against the more recent Scoobies and Mitsu Evos.
 

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BEEAH said:
I do, I've driven both of them and auto crossed both of my 06 STI's. At the time the cars were not even in the same race class. I'm not saying the Neon SRT's were dogs by any means, I loved, LOVED driving the SRT Neon and would expect the Dart to be much more capeable. I could only hope and dream that an SRT Dart would have a solid AWD system with 300hp as I could easily be a customer. I would expect a ~250hp FWD Dart.

Ralph knows what an STI is capeable of as he lost to a father and son team at the 2011 Targa Newfoundland Rally while driving a 2010 Dodge Viper ACR. Which as many of us know is an insanely fast car and is still one of the fastest lap times around the Nurburgring for a production car.
You are comparing two cars that were not classed the same... And pax was always my friend when it came to the STi's

Additionally, since your autox example is thrown out the window, on the street the SRT4 had little trouble with STi's.

Then you compare a highly modified STi to a stock Viper. I can modify a SRT4 to beat up on Viper's too. Same with a 1st gen. What's your point?

BigDaddySRT said:
You've "driven" an SRT-4 NEON... but not actually campaigned an SRT-4 NEON in a Race Series.... that's a huge difference.


I think a lot of people are living in the Past.... and unfortunately, those 30 People living in the Past aren't justification for Building/ Testing/ Certifying an AWD Turbo SRT that's going to cost $40K... that's the plain and simple truth.
Thanks, I agree with you 100%... and you need to update your signature.

Mike
 

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Mike V. said:
Additionally, since your autox example is thrown out the window, on the street the SRT4 had little trouble with STi's.
.

Mike
The SRT4 may have little trouble with WRXs, but not an STi. An STi is almost a full second faster to 60, and about 8/10ths faster in the quarter. The updated SRT-4 closed the gap, but the STi is still a fair bit faster.
 

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From a roll on the street I had no problems with WRX's but STi's would hang while slowly fading as speed picked up. The AWD in those cars killed them on the roll races, from a dig if they knew how to launch they would beat the SRT4.

I bought my 04 SRT4 as a leftover, it was the side airbag model with sunroof for $18995. Was one of the most fun cars I've ever owned, probably should've kept it longer but decided I wanted a truck. My SRT4 was completely stock by the way.
 

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Mike V. said:
You are comparing two cars that were not classed the same... And pax was always my friend when it came to the STi's

Additionally, since your autox example is thrown out the window, on the street the SRT4 had little trouble with STi's.

Then you compare a highly modified STi to a stock Viper. I can modify a SRT4 to beat up on Viper's too. Same with a 1st gen. What's your point?


Thanks, I agree with you 100%... and you need to update your signature.

Mike
I was comparing it because it was brought up in this thread, by a few other people... Relax a bit, I'm just trying to have a simple conversation about a car that does not exist yet.

My point was I just know RG is driving an ACR the modern class in this race, and the father and son team drove an STI in the modern class and he was well over a minute and a half slower. What makes you think a local father and son team has the resourses to "highly modify" their car over the multi millionare? I would say the Viper ACR is "holy crap highly modified" from the factory... Ralph knows first hand what those cars are capeable of in real world conditions and its my hope thats inspiration for an SRT Dart with AWD. Straight line performance is only a small part of sports car performance. From what I've seen I think RG is a very good driver. It is really an amazing feat to take a 600+ hp RWD car to a road rally with dirt and rain and finish on the podium.

I was talking total performance, drag racing is not road racing and drag racing from a roll never happens on an actual drag racing track. If you believe that an SRT Neon from the mid 2000's could hold a candle to a mid 2000 STI I don't know what to say and I'll end it at that. I'm not going to add to any more drama comments on here, I've been an avid reader for years and don't want to be involved.

******************************************************

I think the right target for the Dart would be the Focus ST at around 250hp in that mid to high $20's would be a fantastic and fun car. An even higher end AWD model would be great but you wonder how much more money it would be to sell it. If they could pull an AWD system from Lancia cars then holy crap. :excited:
 

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AutoTechnician said:
The SRT4 may have little trouble with WRXs, but not an STi. An STi is almost a full second faster to 60, and about 8/10ths faster in the quarter. The updated SRT-4 closed the gap, but the STi is still a fair bit faster.
You need to clarify.... Are you talking about the SRT-4 NEON or the SRT-4 CALIBER?
 

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Stratuscaster said:
Kind of my point. The Fiat Way(TM) is real big on special editions, colors, and decals...not so much on performance differences.



Exactly - new Abarth versus historical Abarth is an example of this (not that the current Abarth isn't worth it's salt. Only that it's no longer a world beater in the Shelby sense (neither is Shelby for that matter now).
srt4evah said:
Not true, the Gen IV Viper in 2010 was the class leader as well.



Of course! Viper is an SRT product. One better expect this level of performance. My comment was made in reference/relevance to the current topic - more common regular production vehicles.
Cudapete said:
Back in the day it took a few years for the Dart to become a performer. The 273 4V was a decent runner but performance didn't really take off until 68 with the introduction of the 340. GT's were more of an appearance package....trim, bucket seats. The GTS had it all.



To me, nothing would improve Dodge's reputation more than to exceed the expectations of the populace with a healthy performing GT or GTS badged Dart. I thing we're seeing evidence of this now. This is a good thing...
 

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The original Dart did wonders for Dodge's reputation for outstanding reliability and engineering excellence, mostly from the /6 variant though. This is why I don't quite understand the lack of marketing linking the new Dart to the near epic reputation of its predecessor. In reality, the basic 60/70's Darts were very boring cars....but very boring cars that sold very well to a diverse demographic. It could be anything from a plane jane grocery getter, take grandma to church on Sunday, to king of the drag strip in GTS form. I think the 68 Hurst Hemi Darts still dominate the A stock automatic class today. IMO, The key to the success of the new Dart is finding this broad market appeal. The GT is a step in the right direction of doing this. Just a step though....we need a true GTS (for grandma's Sunday trips to church) LOL!
 

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Cudapete said:
The original Dart did wonders for Dodge's reputation for outstanding reliability and engineering excellence, mostly from the /6 variant though. This is why I don't quite understand the lack of marketing linking the new Dart to the near epic reputation of its predecessor. In reality, the basic 60/70's Darts were very boring cars....but very boring cars that sold very well to a diverse demographic. It could be anything from a plane jane grocery getter, take grandma to church on Sunday, to king of the drag strip in GTS form. I think the 68 Hurst Hemi Darts still dominate the A stock automatic class today. IMO, The key to the success of the new Dart is finding this broad market appeal. The GT is a step in the right direction of doing this. Just a step though....we need a true GTS (for grandma's Sunday trips to church) LOL!
I think the previous reputation was succesful in-part because it was a different world back then. Reliability was a very rare attribute in the 60's-70's. Nowadays it's an expectation. Not only is any given vehicle expected to do much more in a reliable fashion, it's also expected that it do so in a specific (Honda-Toyota if you will) way...

You get much better reputation building mileage when you win over customers via emotional means. This is why I suspect that broad based "performance" and gizmology is being emphasized in offerings of this class.
 

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I'm sure the WRX STi is going to keep coming up, but really I don't think it should..

I think we can fairly say the company has a lot of things it is trying to focus on. Special performance versions of the dart are going to be contingent on a comment made by RG previously. Having the running gear available to make it work. I strongly suspect the management is not hugely interested in tasking their man power in resources into a niche "STi competitor", at least not yet.
They could pull it off. The company has invested in other niche programs. I think there is a real question though about the viability of a price tag excess of 30k at a company which, especially now, has a hard time selling compact cars. So I hope to see faster darts, but ones that are likely to be packaged and priced to actually sell. Not just for a happy image.
 
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